I had the same feeling, no magic plus historical game oriented in XV-century Bohemia, meh that seems boring. Hovewer was fantastic experience, my personaly PC goty of 2018 and the best RPG i ever played after Witcher 3 and Gothic 2. Im looking into Greedfall too, hovewer I´ll wait to see if it come to GOG first. Anyway with Grim Dawn now so no pressure... but definitely look interesting.

I usually just joke around and laugh at threads like these, Eurojank is a pretty derogatory term or silly meme yet its a terrible descriptor that doesn't do the games justice at all.

But I have to comment that personally I disagree with the notion regarding why Gothic 3 is bad, they don't really hold true. Even unmodded it had a gargantuan and well crafted world which even put Oblivions world in its place pretty fucking hard. Its impressive that only around three people or so worked on the world as well. Its impossible to blame the devs of rushing the game. They tried the hardest with the budget they've been given. Another year and the game would've been great, the onus is on the publishers who forced the devs to release the game. A real shame.

Modded its a masterpiece, especially with all its base mods (extention mod, questpackage that ties in most important quests, that sorta stuff) applied. Its unfortunate that you need tons of mods to run the game but once you applied all the basics its honestly a great experience. The game also is around three times as long to complete as the two other Gothic game. I consider modded Gothic 3 as good as the first Fallout in both gameplay and its "openess". Its the only way you can make the game feel complete and well, actually great.

When we're talking about real jank I'd pick Two Worlds 1 as the bonafide jankfest that simply is unapologetic to just how damn janky it is. People often consider it a bad RPG and the game also notorious for the ways to complete it but there are quite a lot of people who it find it quite endearing and fun. At least you can ride AND fight on horses in that game, take that Skyrim! It also takes some good ideas that people didn't try before, like using some of the ideas of other games while still making them work out. Give me a "honest" game over a "souless" one anytime.

Risen is as bug and jank free as they come, though. That game was a little bit too sleek (both in gameplay and in story) for its own good IMHO. I still liked it, but they should've at least attempted to make another Gothic as a real passion project instead.

EDIT: Piranha Bytes actually should crowdfund a Gothic-like fantasy game that really goes balls deep into its "janky openess". Kinda like a medieval S.T.A.L.K.E.R. of sorts.

I think you are confusing "Euro-" and niche. Obviously, most mainstream product is souless - as they're done from "what is most popular" parts and being polished to be "for everyone". There are plenty US niche RPGs with a soul (Arcanum, what comes to mind first).

Euro-RPGs having a soul is simply a result of those games being niche, made by small companies. Witcher 3 is, of course, an exception that still proves the rule.

The reason why I only play it with a mod that changes exactly this, so that you can use the stone tablets whenever you like without having to worry about spending too many LPs. The first time I was really annoyed by this, and the mod made it so much more enjoyable (I also use similar leveling mods for Morrowind and Oblivion, for example, so that I don't have to plan out my skill progression in advance in order to get the best attribute bonuses).

Topic: I absolutely love Gothic 1 and 2, they are among my favorite games of all time. And right now, I am playing The Witcher (the first one), finally, and while I am not too thrilled about the combat or the constant running around the same places, I really like the story, atmosphere and characters. It just feels very European to me, with a more "realistic" medieval fantasy scenario than in many American RPGs.

If you didn't like the sterile, repetetive Oblivion but loved Gothic, you might give Nehrim a try. A total conversion that successfully 'Europeanizes' Oblivion and brings it on a level with Gothic - and yes, it is by a German modder team, so I guess it counts as European game.

Other than that I think that Gothic 2 NotR was the pinnacle of European RPGs until the arrival of The Witcher 3. TW3 has arrived in the mainstream, but still manages to be a fascinating and near perfect game. TW2 was already good, TW3 is even better.

Other, older German RPGs I love are the Realms of Arkania (DSA) series and Albion. But I don't know whether they count as 'janky', since I don't know what that means.

I'd say STALKER too, but I really don't consider it RPG. I'm a veteran fan of Piranha Bytes, following them since day one, and there's really no game of theirs I ever disliked, even if some (Risen 2 - Gothic 3) are clearly weaker than others.
I like almost all "Eurojank" games, RPG or not, because usually they make up in "spirit" what they lack in technique.

When I read 'euro-jank RPG', I thought 'oh, they're talking about Two Worlds'.
Two Worlds is what got me through the dark times of Oblivion. I even reasonably enjoyed the sequel.

There's also Greedfall, which apparently falls in this category.

When it comes to Euro-jank RPGs then you gotta take the good with the bad. You'll get games made with lots of passion and with many great ideas and a high difficulty or skill req. But you also get janky mechanics, lots of bugs, absurd difficulty spikes and just unbalanced gameplay.

With triple A's you get RPGs with refined mechanics and polished gameplay but without the heart and soul of Euro-jank RPGs.

Personally I like both. I couldn't just play janky German RPGs all the time since all the bugs and janky gameplay would make me tear my hair out. I need polished games like Skyrim, Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, Diablo 2+3 etc. I love the smooth gameplay of those RPGs. But I also love the wild and unpredictable feeling of Euro-jank RPGs where you never know what will happen next and where everything is brimming with passion for the genre.

Tldr: I love a good mix of both.

Heh. This made me chuckle, thinking about all the times I fell through the dungeon floor or got stuck on the environment etc. Not to mention the clunky console menu in unmodded Skyrim. I like the game, but I really don't see that much of a difference between "eurojank" and "AAA US jank". The distinction seems pretty arbitrary, IMO.

Heavily disagree. Let set aside bugs, disastrous secondary quest, empty Varant, "cities" that looks as forgotten villages, and so on, JooWood fault for make Piranha release game in 2006.

But the main problem with Gothic 3 is that is no Gothic any more. Gothic has always been narrative driven RPG, the world was there to tell you a story. World with consistence and internal logic. World inhabited with NPC with personality. With a lot of unique locations. Basically, Gothic was the Witcher 3 of 00s. Hovewer Gothic 3 is trying to be TES. Narrative is set aside, main quest is simple and boring. Hasn´t consistence with the lore. NPC has personality of the stone, nobody have something interesting to tell. In Gothic 1 a simple worker in mine has to tell you more than Rhobar in Gothic 3, seriously?

Let´s back to lore again. Is completely contradictory with first entries. Basically Gothic 1-2 had strong LotR-ish vibe, in Gothic 3 on the other hand there is no conflict at all. Myrtana (now medieval Europe) at war with Varant (now medieval Middle Easth) and Orcs. In the worst case, if Orcs won war, a couple of peasant will have to do forced labor. It is as if in LotR the only consequence for Middle Earth of losing war with Sauron would be remove tax deductions to Shire. Oh wait, in Gothic 3 Sauron is no more, now is... i don´t now, just a Boris Jonhson lol.

Gothic 3 with patch perhaps is nice RPG since it´s from 2006. But it´s a disastrous as Gothic game, no doubt about that. They change the concept of the franchise (from Witcher-ish narrative to TES-ish freedom) and lore is totally contradictory with first entries. World haven´t internal logic and consistence either, there almost no field for agriculture in Myrtana for example. And all that is exclusively Piranha fault, wrong inicial concept.

I would love to see new Gothic, but to make it works Piranha need to pretend Gothic 3 never took place and start the story in Gothic 4 where it end in Gothic 2. And leave the race of who has the bigger. For Good sake, Piranhas, you´re there like a couple of guys and a dog with cat, don´t pretend you can make huge world with quality content. You can´t. And it´s ok. Gothic 2 NotR is not especially big but feels big (take 60-80 hours to beat it) and it is a truly masterpiece. Please back to your roots.

I really liked the neutral ending, let's give poor Adanos a well deserved vacation. The path getting there not so much. I do agree going TES was a huge mistake, the world is way too big for the things it contains, Then again, I only got into Morrowind, with how strange it felt. I played Nehrim before Oblivion and when I tried it it felt dull(er). Guess Enderal will do the same for Skyrim. Do they count as eurojank too btw?

Hello all,

Hm...I can't say it's my favorite nor am I sure if it's good or bad but I kinda enjoyed Holy Avatar vs The Maiden of The Dead....I've heard Grotesque is quite popular in certain circles.

Please, please, stop judging me, I don't like pressure. Also, contrary to popular beliefs, Germans are great at humor and I love it.

Grotesque Tactics bundle on Steam : https://store.steampowered.com/sub/12355/

My problem with Gothic 3 endings is not only the path to reach it - 100% TES-ish and 0% Gothic - but that all of them as the whole game itself are one big contradictions to lore of Gothic 1/2.

Funny fact, orcs. I heard thausands times from unconditional Piranha fans that the difference is because orcs from Khorinis Isle fought so long with human that they become wild. And blablabla. That´s just you wearing pink glasses, sir. In the intro of Gothic 1 we clearly see that there are war between human and orcs for years, hovewer battles don´t took place in Penal Colony as we can see playing Gothic 1. Also, in Gothic 2 is clearly said - by Ur-Shak and later by Diego - that Orcs that besieged castle and are behind palisade came from mountains (Khorinis) and from sea (continent).

And that just one of the inconsistence in Gothic 3. And that came from inicial concept, not JooWood fault, only Piranha. It´s why I don´t consider what happend in Gothic 3 a canon.

Has anyone already mentioned games by Reality Pump?

Two Worlds series and Vendetta (also known as Raven's Cry) are my guilty pleasures.

Three people so far for Two Worlds. Four with you :)

While I'm at it, trying to make a list of mentions so far. It's somewhat rough, since in some cases it wasn't that clear, or it had caveats, and for those mentioning series or developers I listed everything separately. But it's starting to be rather clear at the top.

6 - Gothic 2
4 - Two Worlds
3 - Gothic
3 - The Witcher
2 - Albion
2 - Gothic 3
2 - Risen
2 - S.T.A.L.K.E.R. [uncertain if all or one]
2 - Vampyr
2 - The Witcher 3
1 - 7 Mages
1 - Bound by Flame
1 - Divinity: Original Sin
1 - Drakensang: The Dark Eye
1 - Drakensang: The River of Time
1 - ELEX
1 - The Fall: Last Days Of Gaia
1 - GreedFall
1 - Hard to Be a God
1 - Holy Avatar vs. The Maidens of the Dead
1 - Kingdom Come: Deliverance
1 - Konung: Legend of the North
1 - Rage of Mages
1 - Rage of Mages 2
1 - Evil Islands: Curse of the Lost Soul
1 - Realms of Arkania
1 - Realms of Arkania 2
1 - Realms of Arkania 3
1 - Risen 2
1 - Risen 3
1 - Sea Dogs
1 - The Technomancer
1 - Two Worlds 2
1 - Vendetta: Curse of Raven's Cry
1 - The Witcher 2

(Included up to post 41.)