So yeah, I believe the title is already self-explanatory. However, before I get to know what are your thoughts on this matter, I'd like you to first read on what I have to say regarding these two questions which I just asked.

So I've been thinking, what do people think when they say that video games are fun (the reason as to why I chose to have video games as the subject instead of games in general is because knowing that we're in the forum of a digital distribution platform and all, I feel like it is only appropriate to talk mainly about video games and exclude any other types of games in this case).

Judging by the definitions of fun that I found from the internet, fun can refer to pleasure, enjoyment, and amusement. Now a different question arises,"Do you consider a game to be fun when you feel challenged?" Because every game always has a goal/objective, winning conditions, and many other things that we ourselves have grown to be familiar with, like health bars, etc. Even games whose focus mainly revolve around their stories also have these aforementioned features or aspects integrated within them as well. As for strategy games such as rts and turn based games, these games are already meant to test your patience and critical thinking in overall so without me not mentioning them, I'm still pretty sure you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. I however, don't think a person can develop any feeling of fun by doing an activity where there is always something at stake. And therefore, I also believe that the only way for us to be able to have fun is by socialising with our close friends in a sense that we're able joke around and laugh to our hearts' content without having to worry what other people may say, since there really is no objective that we need to accomplish as in games, or obstacles to avoid to maintain the number of lives that our game characters have.

However, I would like to make it clear that there are also games that allow you to have fun just like you chatting with your best friends, and they are multiplayer games. But, the kind of multiplayer games that I'm talking about are the ones where you can play co-op with your friends and communicate with them directly be it through a different application like discord or a voice chat feature from the game itself. I'm pretty sure a pattern can already be seen at this point. That is, in my opinion, there should always be your close friends to play with. Just like in GTA Online, where you can basically do many stupid and ridiculous things when your best friends are online, and the game would in an instant switch to a survival mode when they're offline because now every other player you encounter will either try to kill you or, still get you killed either way in an accident which they probably didn't mean, which in this case the enjoyable experience has simply vanished.

Therefore, when people say that video games are fun (except for multiplayer sandbox games), I think the reason as to why they would say something like that is because they had socialised themselves (by playing video games again and again) into thinking that an activity such as playing a video game is fun, unless the game becomes too difficult to a point that they begin to ask the same questions which I have made as the topic subject for this thread.

That's just my opinion though. I'd like to know what are your thoughts on this.

I think you're reading too much into it.. "fun" is just a convenient word, but it's just that, a word choice not to be taken too literally. It's to be taken as "not boring", rather than "fun."

And thus the activity itself can be fun (and yes, there are many games that can be just fun, see screenshot) or exciting or challenging or interesting or whatever, as long as it's generally engaging for the person who says it's fun.

In Finnish one could say "pelaaminen on kivaa" (playing is kiva), where kiva works much like fun, although whether you'd translate it as fun or not depends on the context. Thus a more accurate translation would be "playing is enjoyable." Or you could say "pelit ovat kivoja" (games are kiva) which you could translate as "I like games."

First question: Fun is a biochemical reaction in your brain.
Second question: Games are not a biochemical reaction in your brain.

Conclusion: Games aren't fun.

Normally when I play game I enjoy myself (even if the games are challenging).

So yes, I would say video games are fun.

Yeah, so that's what I was saying. People casually say "fun" when they mean they enjoy something.

Logical. Flawlessly logical.

Fun is every activity that we enjoy doing. The "better ones" are definitely fun - and yes, the term "better ones" is absolutely subjective.

See it this way: if video games weren't fun, we wouldn't play them.

You want proof for this bold statement?

Well, if I play a video game, and I don't enjoy it (= I don't have fun with), I stop playing it.

I agree with what others have posted above (including Geizterfahr's foolproof logical deductions :-p )

I also think you're giving too much weight to the social aspect of the video games. Of course lots of people enjoy the social aspect, but also many do not. In fact, you'll see several people in this forum who just don't care about the multiplayer part of their games, don't bother with achievements even in games where they are implemented, make sure their Gog profile is deactivated and don't have an "audience" during a gameplay session.

Everyone who plays a game has their own reasons. Mine are probably gonna be different from yours. Some do it to spend time doing an activity together with someone they care about, others to showoff their "awesome skillz", others to relieve the stress of a tough day, others to postpone an undesirable task. Yet others seek an enriching cultural experience made of a combination of story, music, visuals and gameplay... there are probably more reasons I didn't think of.

The idea of "fun" is vague so it fits everyone.

If a video game is intended to be fun, and is well designed, the game will be fun for those who are into the game's genre.

If a part of a game isn't fun, either it's poorly designed (or doesn't fit the game's genre), or the game is not the right one for the player.

(Example of a part not fitting the game's genre: An action sequence in an otherwise turn-based game. Also, insta-fail stealth sequences in non-stealth games.)

(Example of a game not designed to be fun: The GRE testing program (or any computerized testing). It qualifies as a game; the player is presented with a series of questions, which have to be answered in the time allotted, and the player is given a score after completion (though, for standardized testing, it may take a while to actually get the score, unlike with more conventional games where you get immediate feedback). The game, however, is clearly not designed with fun in mind; it has another purpose. Another example of this sort of games might be simulators intended to teach people how to do tasks such as flying airplanes in safer environments.) I disagree with this; there are plenty of ways to have fun alone. Playing single-player computer games is, of course, one of them.

Also, not every game has an objective or obstacles to avoid; one can create modes of games where there's nothing at stake. For example, apparently some Bejeweled games have a Zen mode, where there isn't anything that can end your game, and running out of moves just gets you a new playing field, so you can just play forever (or until you decide you've played enough).

Your definition of 'fun' isn't the same as mine. Nor the next person's, or the next. Everyone has a different perception of what's fun. If video games weren't fun to me, I wouldn't spend as many of my leisure hours on them as I do. Multiplayer is fun to you, judging from your comments. For me, it's more fun playing alone. I don't care for multiplayer or on-line gaming.

Thanks guys for your insights. Just to be clear, I myself don't enjoy multiplayer as much as what my earlier statements have made you guys think of me. I guess I was just trying to use a too subjective and broad term to define the whole gaming experience. I don't know, perhaps the reason as to why I even asked the questions is because I've somehow come to enjoy video games a lot less than I used to.

Video games are among the most cost efficient way to get fun.

other fun generating avenue like collecting cards, chess, jungle hiking, beer, hangout with friends, go to bar, girlfriend etc etc

cost more in money / time / effort / emotional investment / workload.

This is an interesting question. I will talk about it from the point of view of a "relaxed" gamer. For some of us escapism and a dose of immersion is where the fun is at. So, we actually "ignore" the objectives, pick the elements we enjoy and taste the journey. Naturally, games which extrapolate the imagination are more suited than games which do not. That doesn't mean to say we don't take on challenges at all. What tickles and invokes one's mind juice can spark fun.

However, I do agree on putting too much worth to games challenges. There are some folks who act like it's a crime if you aren't onboard with a lot of challenges, or are they are pretty arrogant about their achievements. Which I tend to find incredulous. I would expect someone who is that big on challenges to produce substantial real-world winnings, and not pretending that coal equals to gold.

Just my angle of what fun is and how video games, or any game really provoke it :)!

Fun is pretty complex, but I keep things short. It depends on several dozend factors. While some are individualistic, some are also culturally based and some depend on the nature of play itself.

Scientifically it can be pretty complex. It depends on pattern recognition and memetics. Its pretty easy to fathom. Basically, depending on hour your brain is structured, you will notice different things that in turn get recognized as abstract patterns. These patters always will fit within a past (fantasy or not) situations that you've experienced. To have fun you need two memetic patterns that aren't adjacent to each other. If these two patterns do not fit any abstact frame that is already set up in your mind (through living experience). Your brain triggers a natural reaction whenever something happens that doesn't fit any predetermined frame that you've experienced prior. The reason why most kids laugh at random stuff for instance is because there aren't yet any "abstract frames" constructed through living experience. This is also partially the reason why people experience nostalgia, because remembering old things is a good way to form new abstractions since old experiences and past expectations make place for new ones over time.

Now, video games basically are made that "fit" very well inside preconcived experience, which is also why there are so many games that try to fit inside a established genre that "works". In a way, a game conveys any developers lived through experiences and makes games according to that reality, even if the game is based around fictional aspects (because it always is an abstraction, even if the game is absurdist). Playing a game now depends on a whole lot of individual aspects. In the end, some of the experiences done by the dev will convey to you, as its the nature of memes and the transportation of information through the tangibility of information. There is a good reason some people feel the illusion of "being inside the game" whenever they concentrate a lot, its because they partially feel this "tangibility" process directly.

So in short, fun is a complex individual and cultural factor that happens when two patters that don't allign meet. A game serves basically as the vessel which manipulates your brain to provoke such processes. Your brain constructs abstraction of reality through playing with the game.

Fun fact: No matter what, the interaction between you and video games, no matter what games, will inevitably improve your creativity through the nature of play. For all I know, Video games in general do seem to have a similarly strong if not stronger effect on the brain like other games or sports. Nice socratic misconduct there my dude lol

I hate video games.