I think they make sure that doesn't happen by closing studios, concentrating on the mass market and pandering to the people who will pay over those who might not. Gaming won't collapse or stop existing, but offline singleplayer PC games that don't cater to consoles sure are rare now-a-days.

Just musing but do you think if piracy didn't exist they wouldn't close studios(to make more money/etc), or stop trying to find ways to make games suck but also make them cheaper for them to make?

It's impossible for either of us to properly quantify the impact, really. I don't think millions of people who used to download games for free suddenly having to pay for them would hurt the PC gaming market at all though, that's for sure.

Of course that will never happen, so we're talking about fantasy land. My simple point though is that he seems to think if piracy isn't crashing the whole industry then its not having a detrimental impact, which I think is wrong. Look at free-to-play, look at "press enter" at the start of a console port. These are things directly related to piracy in the sense that we become a lower priority, or because publishers want to monetize our platform in new ways because piracy is impacting the old ways.

It's not a simple "games will die" or "games would flourish" issue. The "everything is free on the internet" culture being built by people such as lugum is changing the very core of how media is presented. Music subscription services, netflix, free-to-play... eventually the idea of owning media will be ancient, because people rejected it in favor of getting everything for free. I don't think that's a better future.

1. I agree that it wouldn't hurt the market.

2. I don't think he said it doesn't have any detrimental impact specifically. Also again, the companies are also greedy in some cases. It's not just piracy that leads to shitty console ports and to hint that they do in any way is being disingenuous.

3. Again I don't think people pirating is the only thing leading us down this path, and you seem to be hinting like it is the only thing leading us down this path to crappy PC games or at the very least the majority reason.

its not that black and white as you make me it to be. its really grey.
and like with the wii they make their money on the games rather then the consoles these days.
but you make it sound like piracy is something new, it is there for many decades and it will never cease. and no that doesnt make it right.
but i remember with the nes for example,eventually they had large bins of decent games that became eventually on discount. now zelda or mario wont ever get that much of a price cutdown , only the truely rubbish games go for a tenner.
also look at the ds games. there is 6000 of them but i can only barely name 20 that are really good to play. how many crap girly games are there with pets and make-up stuff.
i am a pure retro gamer because todays games are just crap. but i pay where i can for gog games here . why? because those games are good and i support them.

batman? need for speed? gta? i could really care less.

my point is not condoning piracy, my point is if you never have an intention to buy something then downloading it (even for trying) nothing is ever lost.

I'm pretty sure I stated explicitly that's its not easily quantifiable or a simple black and white issue, so why you would say this in response baffles me.

In any case, I'm done debating it, as I said before. You guys can choose to believe whatever you want. If Gamerager thinks that bad PC ports has nothing to do with piracy on the PC, he is free to believe that and I am free to think he's insane.

I never said it had nothing to do with it, just that it wasn't the sole or majority reason for bad console ports, and that sometimes companies factor other things into such decisions like plain old greed....so please stop putting words in my mouth.

Could you please then not resort to ad hominems and slander when you next reply?

Hahaha... slander? My god man.

Libel then? I dunno the exact term, so be easy on me. :p

Thing is you did take what I said wrong......and your only response to what I said last is to laugh at the terms I used.

I took what you said how I took it. You clarified now, and that's fine.

I didn't know if you mistook what I said and honestly was leaning a bit towards you knew what I said and misquoted it to support your argument. I'm sorry if that wasn't the case and you truly just misread what I wrote.

Well, some people really are hard at understanding things, indeed: abandonware is a category of spirit, not a legal one. Software protected by copyright cannot be downloaded without infringing the law. END OF THE STORY :-P

*No really, this is the 1000th time I've seen a discussion on abandonware et all....*

Who here said it wasn't illegal? Some just said they didn't have moral qualms about it under certain conditions. ;)

Well Abandonware no matter the whelm of light that consider it "illegal" or not, it is dependent of the company such as any old or disclosed publisher allowing it Public domain(as a form named A-ware for most older computer nuts). Another term Freeware. As I am perhaps preaching to the wind. Ether way, I will be more careful of links directing towards software.

Say who, numb nuts? You'd prefer all new threads, when the same thing is said over and over again, with usually at least one person saying.... "there's been a thread about this.. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION noob"

God, some people just love getting on people's case for NO REASON WHAT SO EVER!!

NON ISSUE!!