interesting...... firstly it was faith and religion that made people; naive or not, do what they do and the bible is the center of it all. if it was not for faith there would be no religion and vice versa therefore both are an equal force. both are responsible.

second brianX could be the biggest jerk off of them all, you never know nowadays.

third you are correct. i do share this same opinion.

Thanks! I pity you too :)
Nice image you made there in your mind for yourself dude. Have fun with that!

While I don't have the time to elaborate, one theory is that it was all... "a game" or (using a wider term) "playing". Just as our games have their own time, "place" and logic, same goes for religious rituals and dogma. Fireworks on a New Years Ave aren't supposed to cause anything, they're there because people are used to them, they're pretty and have become a symbol of sorts.

Meh. Religion is part "myth" (something you believe in unquestionably) and part "rite" (something you do the way it's supposed to). There's nothing there that tells people to kill one another (usually - quite the contrary). In that sense - religion isn't even a "gun", it's a piece of metal that can be forged into a sword. You can't blame the metal for being malleable, can you ? It's the man that does things, it's the charisma that he uses as the hammer, it's the mob that assembles with tribal pride and it's the person, every particular person, that is accountable for their actions.
Let's not assign blames to concepts, or else you're at risk of following some dodgy metaphysics ;P.

As long as he learns to STFU when there are things he wants to say but no one wants to hear - he might as well be a Martian, I don't care. I'll accept him as a fellow gamer.

Come on Boss, that's way too simplistic. Dig deeper.

Actually, there are images of the Hubble telescope which shows the time when light separated from darkness (ie, the beginning of the universe). The idea that the universe is infinite is a pagan concept, most scientists today worth their salt believe the universe had a beginning (a big bang perhaps?) and will have an end (heat death caused by entropy, 2nd law of thermodynamics, etc). So the universe is not infinite as in 'always going to be here and always was here.' The scientific evidence of a beginning and an end of the universe fits the Bible's creation story (Genesis) and ending story (Revelation) perfectly.

But I understand your bitterness and anger toward religion Boss, I really do. I was a God-hating atheist at one point in my life, I thought the search for God was pointless and a fairy-tale. Not saying you are an atheist or even a God-hater (why hate something you DON'T believe exists?), but I can understand your bitterness because all you have to do is look at all the sin in the world today and just want to hide in a cave for the rest of your life.

Aliens is something I am not afraid to think about because I do believe that, to the ancient world, Jesus really WAS an Alien, if you define alien as otherworldly, strange, or foreign.

Think about this: the Judeo/Christian concepts of angels, demons, and Satan have been pictured quite romantically by artists throughout the ages, ie, Dante's inferno, Satan having hoofs and horns, etc. But, if you read the bible, Satan is usually described like a snake (deceiving, wise but arrogant/prideful, etc), but yet this angelic being is never really described fully. Also, angels are described in the Bible, but they are described through personal visions by the various prophets. When they appear in person, they are usually described with human-likeness, sans the wings and different features described in the visions.

My point is this, there are some scientists who really believe that aliens long ago colonized this planet (or seeded it). Many scientists would rather believe in aliens rather than God, angels, or demons. What amazes me is the lengths they go to put their FAITH into such speculations and totally dismiss the Bible and call it complete fiction!

But that is the dividing line: faith. We all put our faith in something, the key is how much TRUST we put in that faith being true. According to the Bible, that is one of the reasons why God wants us to protect our minds (renew it daily) and continue to seek Him because it is VERY easy to get misled, especially in this sinful and dieing world we live in. Of course, that very statement I made is a faith claim, so I guess it may all come down to which information do you really put your trust into in the end because we ain't getting out of here alive.

But hey, if you want to stay bitter and angry, that is your choice (but I would recommend you don't!).

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

The Masses? Wow, said like a good Marxist! Your contempt for human beings is astounding Boss! Maybe you should look in the mirror and realize you belong to the 'Masses' as well because of the fact you are PART of the human race. You sound so elitist and pompous, full of sound and fury, but in effect, saying nothing.

What is wrong with modeling myself after Jesus Christ? Please point out the many things he did wrong, and please, don't refer to the Gnostic gospels okay? ;) Maybe you would rather me model myself after Hitler? Who do you model yourself after, you surely don't live in a vacuum (yet you may live in your mother's basement).

So the Bible, all 66 books, one day decided to get up off its shelf, grow some legs and arms, take up a sword and start slaughtering millions of non-believers, huh? Wow, what an imagination you have there Boss! Wait, oh you mean that people really misunderstood God, took matters into their own hands, totally ignored Jesus' instructions to turn the other cheek, deny themselves and pick up their cross daily, feed the hungry and take care of the poor? Oh, now I understand Boss, that makes more sense now: don't shoot the message just because the ones who disobeyed the message demonstrated themselves to be completely wrong (and evil) in their actions! Perhaps they should have taken that 'narrow path' after all...

If someone tells you that 2+2 = 5, are you going to believe them? NO, you point out that the original message is 2+2=4 because it is the truth, makes sense, and structures won't fall apart because you used the right mathematics/measurements in building your house.

I'm having a little fun with you of course, but you are right that the evil things done in the name of Christ and Christianity is inexcusable, and God will judge those deeds as it says in the Bible. Just because someone claims to be a sheep doesn't mean they are because many wolves disguise themselves as sheep. Actions have eternal consequences whether you like that or not.

Vestin wrote: "Secondly - BrianX is most likely a protestant, if my intuition serves me right."

Close, I like to think of myself as a follower of Jesus Christ.

Vestin wrote: "Lastly - you can't really accuse him of modelling his life after Jesus, for two reasons. One - the historical figure wasn't that much of nuisance, other than bringing some unwanted Roman attention to a certain ethnic group."

Jesus wasn't a nuisance? Why did they crucify Him if He wasn't!? I would imagine claiming to be God incarnate would be a nuisance to the local Judaic religious leaders and to the 'god-man' Caesar. Jesus, without a doubt, if you really study the New Testament, brought a SWORD and not peace (Matthew 10:34). Of course, that particular 'Sword' was the Word of God convicting people of their sin. Yeah, that Jesus guy, he was so quiet and passive! The reality is, Jesus Christ turned the WORLD upside down with His teachings and things were (and are and continue to be) not the same after His resurrection. Of course, it did take time, but hey, God is patient and like a good sower, He likes to see His seed take root and then eventually take everything else over PEACE by PEACE.

And while my human nature would LOVE (being tempted and all) to just sit back and reap the benefits of my 'Christian culture,' there is still much work to be done in spreading the gospel, helping those less fortunate, tithing, and trying to get along the majority of the 'Masses' (as Bossonova would say). But yes, I, thank God, don't have to live a nomadic, desert lifestyle, I might have to move to the Middle East for that, but hey, there is work to be done over here a'plenty.

By the way, knowing that I am a sinner saved by God's Grace, I know that I am not perfect and will never be perfect (on this side of eternity), but Jesus set me free by destroying the sin debt, therefore I am not under the Law, I am under Grace. To understand that way of Christian thought, read Romans.

And come on, I'm not THAT annoying ;) try reading RPGcodex.com poster's comments!
Hey, I am trying hard to STFU all the time, especially my vegetables for my Asian dinner! Oh, my bad, I thought you said STIRFRY. You aren't very tolerant of other people's opinions are you, especially if they collide with your ingrained belief systems that you acquired through high school, college, or Kierkegaard. But, the one saving grace is that you are a gamer and you aren't as narrow-minded as Bossonova is ;)

What he did wrong?

Well, apparently he never married, so either he was gay, or perhaps suffering from a crippling erectile dysfunction, because he certainly can't have been popular with the ladies. Perhaps he was just a fat hairy ape with methane flatulence, sort of an ancient version of what you'll find in truck stops all over america these days.

He also managed to get himself nailed to a fucking cross by the local authorities. Something about stealing wine and getting lepers and shit so drunk they thought they had been cured. Pretty dismal stuff. The local populace would rather see a notorious thief freed than him, and he was turned in by one of his best friends, so I say he got what's coming to him. He tried to hide in a garden, but luckily the centurions were vigilant and had the place surrounded before he could sneak out under a bush of petunias.

Oh, and do mention the gnostic gospels. They contain the parts of the story that didn't arrive on fax from heaven.

ROFLMAO Jesus a fuckin queer. that is precious. brianX is gonna lose sleep now.

One point about the Gnostic gospels and then I will cover your earlier illuminating points about Jesus: The Gnostic gospels were not part of Christianity except that they came 50 to a hundred years after the original books of the New Testament were recorded, so, as in accord with what some of the earlier patristic Church Fathers wrote, the Gnostics combined Greek Platonism and Christian thought together therefore it was heretical and a cult. To give you an example: The Gospel of Thomas (or Judas, or the others) is to the Bible what Harry Potter fan-fiction is to the original Harry Potter books. Close, but no cigar. I recommend 'Dethroning Jesus' by Daniel Wallace, and Darrell Bock for a closer examination of those texts that tried to compete with Orthodox Christianity.

Your descriptions of the historical Jesus really doesn't fit the Christian New Testament which are the ONLY reliable sources on the historical Jesus we have. So, I assume you speculated a fictional Jesus to compete with the real, written down and available in book stores, Biblical Jesus. Again, you can use special pleading and look to the Gnostics or even your own imagination, but if you want a more realistic source, look to the originals (check the Dead Sea Scrolls, the early Church Father's writings, etc).

As far as the SPIRITUAL dimension of Jesus' work as described by those who actually KNEW him (walked, ate, spent time with, witnessed miracles, etc), then you are way off the mark. If you read the Bible and studied it in its context and its full scope of Redemptive acts, you may come to the idea that Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews, the promised Messiah of the Old Testament who also functioned as Prophet, Priest, and King for all who would accept Him. He was also described, in the book of John (John 1:29), as the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of His people. This was Jesus' duty and job: to be a sacrifice for His people (those who would accept Him). The resurrection, if you trust in it and have faith that God CAN do miracles (God is God after all!), then Jesus did vindicate His actions and His predictions that He would suffer and die, then rise again 3 days later. None of this was hidden from His teachings, just read the New Testament.

Of course, Vestin, you can join Bossonova and hurl insults at me and be bitter and angry all the time, especially towards the Jesus of your own imagination, but you really can't make up your own Jesus of Nazereth in light of what the historical evidence points to.

How nice of you to say. do you say that to all who oppose you, is that the proper jesus way?? you did forget to explain one thing: Let us just accept the fact of human fallacy and follie. Let me assume brianX believes in what is so called "free will" which does not exist. How is it possible for someone like brianX to believe that a path of jesus christ and his so called taking away our sins gives us all free reign on sinning. How foolish is that. or is it only reserved for those special people like brianX who sucks his virtual 2000 + year old dead cock.

Prove to me that Free Will doesn't exist then we can talk.

Well, the Bible states that the gift of Christ is free to EVERYONE who would choose to accept it willfully (let Jesus be Lord of their lives). So, unlike the Gnostics who believed that true salvation was acquired through privileged secret knowledge, the gift is open from God to receive Christ as savior.

By Jesus taking away my sins (destroying them by placing them on the cross He was crucified), it doesn't give me a 'free reign' to sin, it has done actually the opposite, at least in my life it has.

Think about it: You are prisoner chained up in a dungeon all your life, beaten, spit upon, cursed at, and betrayed by other people, then one day you are freed by someone who discovers your condition. In addition to freeing you, that someone clothes you, gives you food, gives you land, a new home, and calls you FRIEND. Wouldn't you go out of your way to not cause any trouble? Wouldn't your heart leap for joy that you were freed from the hell you were in and try your best to show your new friend how much you appreciate being set free and want to spend time with that person? Of course you would, unless you really despise people, life, and yourself for whatever reason.

So, maybe you should take a good look at your life Bossonova and find out if receiving this Gift from God (available to everyone who can hear and see and receive) would really set you free.

Peace.

There sure as fuck is.

That sounds very refreshing to say the least. Don't bother with brianX because he is close minded and is not open to his own nature as it is disguised as what he calls his faith. His points and logic basis is very similiar to a serial murderer. He excuses his own actions cause jesus already died for his sins, LOL. Let me fill you in on something lukipela, the base form of motivation is fear. From what i have read from brian X posts is alot of fear of the unknown. That is why he so claimed to live his life like jesus and is very quick to point out his sins are all resolved from the cross. I have a bat with a couple nails in the head of it just in case Jehova's witness comes by, they start up with this shit like brian X is preaching about , i show them the bat and away they run. Just like a bunch of fuckin pansies like they are. i have had a huge laugh at brian X expense because of his false speculation and handling of his anger towards regular people like me. brianX is a very angry individual towards the world and he sheilds himself within his bubble of his so called faith so whenever he is pissed off he starts in with his radical reasoning and falsehood logic. please lukipela hope that you will never come in contact with people like brianX cause they are the most dangerous people around :)

Being sick the last few days actually resulted in the benefit of avoiding BrianX and his 1950's thinking. Hooray!