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cjrgreen: There's a section where you encounter a few monsters that are susceptible to the silver sword.
I don't read 'em, they disappear before I notice. And I don't read the combat log either.

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cjrgreen: Yeah, you're pretty much unstoppable on Easy, even without it, though. That's the intent of Easy: for playing through the story without introducing complex or challenging combat. It's not much of a way to get accustomed to combat, for that reason.
True. The same strategy did not work on normal. Though I agree that the tutorial tips are too easy to miss - there should be an icon somewhere on the screen that indicates unread tutorial entries - I like the games approach. It was a long time since I encountered a game that neither forced you through a tutorial stage nor was too easy at start - both rendering the gameplay extremely boring at the beginning.
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Rhonmeh: I don't read 'em, they disappear before I notice. And I don't read the combat log either.
You can reread all the tutorial tips in the journal, did not know that myself until I was well past the tutorial.
Post edited July 15, 2011 by lostintime
The tutorial tips might be disappearing too fast, I agree.

BUT

If a player feels lost and at the same time doesn't even bother to seek for information that he has in hand - either in the journal or the manual - I just don't understand that. I won't judge this approach, everyone can name it for themselves.

My point would be this - even if the tutorial did a fine job on teaching you basic mechanics - controls, special abilities, interface, signs and so on - even by freezing the game and putting a HUGE tip on the screen saying "PRESS "E" to BLOCK" or "IGNI PUTS ENEMIES ON FIRE" and so on, what the tutorial won't and SHOULDN'T do is to tell you WHEN to block or WHEN to cast each sign etc.

What I mean is that there always should be a vast part of the gameplay and mechanics aspect of it that should be experienced and discovered by the player himself. And many posts here seem like people complain that the game is too hard because it doesn't hold their hand and put a huge glowing icon on the screen saying "DODGE NOW" or "USE AARD NOW".

If you buy a game that is combat heavy - and I don't think anyone expected TW2 not to be of this kind - expect that you will need some reflexes and motor skills to handle it. Wouldn't it be quite ridiculous the other way round - buying a slow paced strategic game and complaining that it's too slow, turn based and it doesn't use my reflexes???
Post edited July 15, 2011 by gregski
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gregski: there always should be a vast part of the gameplay and mechanics aspect of it that should be experienced and discovered by the player himself.
why thats just crazy talk.
I think the problem has more to do with the fact that Witcher 2 features more of a learning curve then most other games. Take Oblivion for instance, did anyone struggle through the combat of that game? Probably not, because it required little strategy.

Witcher 2, on the other hand, requires a considerable amount of strategy and some trial and error to play on normal or higher difficulties. I find that I have to utilize parrying, magic, oils, potions, bombs, and occasionally traps to defeat my enemies. Where these features would be considered fun "extras" in most other games they are essential in some parts of this one. Different situations call for different tactics, and while you progress and upgrade your character different play styles emerge.

The biggest fault with the Witcher 2 is that it fails to communicate all of this to a new player in the beginning of the game. Requiring extra research and some adjustment to the games mechanics.
Post edited July 15, 2011 by lostintime
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lostintime: Requiring extra research and some adjustment to the games mechanics.
While I was just saying that it's a good thing - and that's what the games used to be about, but that was way before this Google generation, when people need everything handed to them on a silver plate the way THEY want it.
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lostintime: Requiring extra research and some adjustment to the games mechanics.
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gregski: While I was just saying that it's a good thing - and that's what the games used to be about, but that was way before this Google generation, when people need everything handed to them on a silver plate the way THEY want it.
I have to disagree, good tutorials help with those crucial first impressions that can make or break a game for some people. A lot of the frustration and "I'm not playing until this is patched" could have been abated by a better tutorial. Combat in this game is far from broken, just harder to understand. A proper tutorial would have better explained and introduced combat to the player.

I am NOT saying that the game should start saying "block now" and "cast spell now". The combat mechanics are one the Witcher 2's many strengths and should not be changed.

However I still think that in the beginning, some sort of better perhaps pre-prologue tutorial could have prevented much of the early criticism of this game being "to hard".
Post edited July 15, 2011 by lostintime
Don't agree. Tutorial is fine. whats lacking is a description of the combo system.
Being unique is hard because it divides the audience...

My personal opinion:
The Witcher 2 is nearly perfect besides some bugs. Though it is completely different from what I expected, it is able to deliver the sufficient amount of depth and novelty to keep me playing.
nowadays games should work without consulting a manual. Especially in action ridden titles like TW2 which are not that complicated. Someone pressing thumps on old virtues, saying "RTFM!" is stuck in the 90's. On this term I agree with the OP. A solid introduced tutorial should be doable (not to say crucial) and this game does it poorly. On the other hand the option to immerse oneself in the story by reading text fragments is something completely different, as it is the players decision to do so.
Post edited July 17, 2011 by Hamon
I feel the main problem was the lack of a Pause feature. While I did notice the tutorial window pop up now and again, they often either:

a) disappeared too quickly, or

b) appeared when I was in the middle of combat and thus wasn't in a position to read them.

Anybody remember the tutorial windows from TW1? The game would actually pause so you could read the window at your leisure, and thus get a better grasp of what new mechanic was being introduced.

I feel that if the windows paused the combat to say things like, "You are in battle! Draw your steel sword ("1") to engage in combat. Once your sword is drawn, press the LMB to make a fast attack. Press the RMB to make a strong attack."

To avoid the player having to read a huge amount of text in one go, more tutorial windows could pop up (while also pausing the game) when the player gets hit ("Blocking and dodging is crucial to surviving in combat. ... etc.), needs to use Signs ("When facing particularly strong opponents, the Quen sign can greatly increase your survivability against them. ... etc.), on appropriate times to use potions and so on and so forth.