What's your second name; ignorance or troll?

Looking at their other posts... have fish?

I think (but I could be totally wrong) that's how extenders basically worked.
Last time I went that deep was on the C64 more than 30 years ago. (Damn, I'm that old?). Just to learn what makes computers tick, found the source code of a little games even (in Assembly) and tinkered with them. Page-long listings of byte-code in computer magazines, which needed to be typed exactly like they were into the computer. I think my parents thought I was totally bonkers...

Next step at serious programming was C++, which is way more abstracted (although still low-level enough to seriously mess up your machine :-))

BTT, but that is what PC gaming is about... not just "consuming", put in the game, shut off the brain... PC's and their predecessors (Home Computers) are machines that fuel creativity and inventiveness. And that's why there's mods, cracks, hacks, total conversions and a huge indie sector with tons of brilliant ideas turned into trash, but sometimes not, games.

Consoles can offer most of mainstream gaming to the masses so why wouldn't they.

We have Cyberpunk2077 on the PS4 and Xboxone at the end of their life but imagine the same situation in the past.
That would have been like Unreal Tournament 2003(which came out in 2002) being made to run on the first Playstation. Also what happens when the update servers go down.

Ironically in some cases it would be better* for those strategy games where you have to micromanage some units in 3D but setting it up just right would take effort.

*assuming it's a switch,PS5 or PS Vita control style and they use the full features of the controllers.

hmm so there is another doom older than 2016?:O why they have the same name then? who thought this is fine...
well some other rather untalented ones name the new xbox , xbox series x , so confusing

Is not confusing when you hear the music!!!!

I'm not referring to extenders, i'm talking about Segment registers in the x86 systems.

You had multiple, CS (Code) DS (Data) SS (Stack) ES (Extra) and FS/GS (added later). By default depending on which register you used, it would automatically use said segment address. Curiously not all registers could be used for addressing early on. And the math of the segment registers was literally multiply by 16 (shift 4) and add, and that's the real flat memory address.

Then in the case you wanted to use a different segment register you'd specify it during the call, which usually was a single byte prefix code. So instead of say mov word ptr [BX], 100h (probably DS), you'd put mov word ptr ES:[BX], 100h. (Since registers are 16bit, 64k is still the max to any segment/reference). Also regardless the instruction there was no Mem/Mem combo. (So no chance of getting them confused)

Memory extention was probably closer to the XMS memory manager which basically said you wanted to load segment from extended memory into more local memory, and save too. This is basically how the early Doom and other high memory games worked. If the hardware didn't originally support it, the extender would have direct memory access and you call it's API's probably through an inturrupt or other.

Curiously Atari with the 1300XE and the like, had a built in mechenism to access >64k (though they only went 128k i think, and it only changed a 32 or 16k with another slot). Not aware of many games/programs that took advantage of that.

I think the video with Henry Cavill building a PC, combined with my constant pressure to ditch consoles has finally caused my brother to join the PC Master Race. He just finished building his new gaming rig this past month. He's in his mid forties, and has always been a console gamer, so I consider this to be a tremendous victory. =)

Thanks for the lesson. Feels weird to find this incredibly intriguing and the same time knowing it's basically useless knowledge nowadays.
But I never can resist to accumulate useless knowledge, esp. when it comes to computers, Or history.

To hack some ASM on modern PCs, what would you recommend? (if I ever find the time).

Yeah the 186/286 was a different time. It probably was more hacky to use an extender or copy a game listing of a hundred DATA lines. I did something similar with the atari where i looked and found this 256 byte block unused by BASIC so i put in some raw assembly code to output 8 characters to specify the random noise generated, and by golly it was cool (if useless).


To do asm? Depends. A number of languages include inlining assembly, D for example you just do a asm{} block, c does something similar (and GCC you specify the code, but also what registers it mangles so it can do cleanup).

Straight assembly you just need an assembler and a little knowledge on the instruction set, so those cases as (assembler in unix/linux, AT&T syntax) or nasm.

Though raw assembly is rarely needed unless there's features the compiler doesn't expose that you need.

But looking at the sheer raw size of some of the instruction sets... unless I'm writing an assembler, there's WAY too much there now vs when i was looking at it for 16bit and 386.

I want to believe that it is the first case beacuse I don't wannna feel cheated by the time I spent writing the previous post...

anyway going back to the topic of the post, i think being a pc gamer is a way of life. I am one of the people who enjoys the installation of a retail product, look at the old trailers it included and legitimately discover "new" games, for example The longest journey I discovered it from a trailer included in Caesar III.

another aspect is the life time, many games thanks to the Compatibility Tools (wine, wrappers, etc.) emulators (Dosbox) or source ports can be played on modern windows or linux. So no matter how old these games are, they will always be compatible with current OS

As for me, I see games getting worse and worse. More focused on blood and death, with naked women thrown in for good measure. So I play older games, mostly.

I know: the violent ones get more coverage. Sad, but that's the way it is.

I'm thankful for the invention of USB controllers, so I can play console-style on my PC.

I sound so old, possibly because growing up, the most violent title I played was Return of the King- which I still admire for its skill-based combat. If only it were patched for modern systems. Mine was a sheltered life...

I specifically wanted a model that can be connected to the TV, and is usable by two players. (I figured setting up some two-player split-screen system also with a PC or even my Raspberry Pi4 so that they could play either some emulated console games or split-screen PC games together with two gamepads or something, but it seemed quite a lot of extra work and most PC games are designed for mouse+keyboard and for only one player on one PC: but I might still try to do this too).

So, yeah, now I am a proud owner of a Nintendo Switch console, along with Minecraft Nintendo Switch Edition as it was cheaper than other games and I figured it will keep the kids occupied for a longer time than some challenging linear game. Didn't really expect this to happen when I started the thread...

I figured that for me as a PC gamer it makes total sense, if I am able to get my kids away from occupying two of my gaming PCs so that I have more time to use them. :) I admit I am also interested to try to setup and try out the console later today, but damn its games are pricey, most of them 60€, I guess they can be bought second-hand too, if you don't care about online multiplayer...

Before I went to buy it yesterday, I needed to google for lots of open questions about Nintendo Switch, some of which are still open:

1. I had to make sure that I got a "2019" or "V2" version of the Nintendo Switch, even if apparently the only difference is the newer model has a more energy-efficient version of the CPU, which makes the battery last longer (if it is not charging). That ruled out buying the console second-hand, to make sure I get the newer model. I got the more colorful version with neon colors, the store first gave me the grey version even though I specifically asked for the colorful version.

2. The Minecraft game I bought, I got the impression it is some older Switch version of the game that is not receiving any newer updates, and the newer Minecraft, which uses the newer "Minecraft Bedrock" engine or somesuch, is just called Minecraft (instead of Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition). However, I didn't see the newer Minecraft in sale, maybe it is sold only online digitally?, so I guess this older one is fine as long as it works and two people can play it at the same time.

From somewhere I got the impression you have the option to download the newer Minecraft for free if you have this older version, so we will see....

3. So the Switch gamepads can be detached from the console and used separately by two people... but does that work with all two-player games? By default, when they are connected to the base unit and used only by one person, it is more like Playstation or XBox controllers where you have two analog sticks in use... but when you detach them, then each player has only one analog stick?

So how does that work with e.g. Minecraft and other games then, when you have only one analog stick for both looking around and moving around? Using only the digital crosspad for movement? I guess I am about to find out.

4. Related to that, what are those extra Nintendo Switch gamepads I see being sold, which look more like traditional XBox gamepads (with two analog sticks etc.)? Can you connect two of them to the system so that two players have access to a full gamepad (with two analog sticks) at the same time, playing split-screen?

5. What's with the pricing of "Nintendo Switch + Animal Crossing: New Horizons" bundle?

https://www.gigantti.fi/product/gaming/konsolit/nintendo-pelikonsoli/140361/nintendo-switch-pelikonsoli-2019-animal-crossing-new-horizons

When you buy a Nintendo Switch and the Animal Crossing game separately, that is 319€ + 60€ = 379€, while that bundle costs 469€? I would have thought you save money when you buy a bundle... Then again I have seen similar odd pricing in GOG.com, where buying the base game + DLCs separately is many times cheaper...

6. A funny incident in the store when some mother was about to buy the Nintendo Switch Ring-Fit accessory for her kids... but luckily the storekeeper figured out they don't have a Nintendo Switch console, but an XBox One. Parents get confused with so many gaming consoles in the market...

Ha! I knew it :)

I do not own a Switch, but I would guess that when you detach the gamepads you can use them both for a single player game, as in a single dual-analog controller but... in two pieces :)

But I think a Switch owner should clarify these details.

As well as bloating many dozens of gigabytes higher than it needs to be.