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myconv: So that's like Xeshra saying "Warning the game on Epic games or Steam is on Epic games or Steam"
It's Xeshra saying they won't play a game which is DRMed. Some of Epic's stuff isn't tied to the launcher permanently after installation, and some of Steam's stuff isn't either. Once installed these games are portable and don't need the client installed on a machine to play it. I know because I've got games like this which I used to port to my offline gaming machine. No launch check, no in-game check, no problems. Fully offline and client-independent.

It's preference, mate. The fact you don't care about the DRM measure employed does not mean that it does not exist. We've all got limits as to how far we'll let platforms tie us up in knots in order to play a product. It's all about control over the product.

Xeshra is saying "nope, I'm not playing it (or that it sucks) because it's DRMed". A reasonable point of view coming from this particular forum.

In terms of the game specifically, you've already said the game won't boot if you're not "online" (with client running I'm guessing). You don't care, that's your choice. Maybe Xeshra and myself don't like that check? In Xeshra's case it might be a matter or principle. In my case it might be a matter of convenience.
Post edited February 16, 2025 by Braggadar
I know what DRM stands for. I know generally the concept.

But what is meant by "DRM in regards to Humankind specifically and how is it a bad thing? Is it just as Braggadar said and about the initial online check when loading? It was mentioned before though that doesn't necessarily mean "no DRM",s not exactly the best definition then.
Post edited February 16, 2025 by myconv
Other Epic games load fine offline.
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Braggadar: Which sometimes is neither here nor there. Loading offline doesn't necessarily indicate no DRM measure, it just means the game is fine with not needing a live EOS connection at launch. It still might need the client in some way.
Apologies for the late comment. What does EOS stand for in this connotation?
I hazard a guess that it means "Epic Online Services", probably the stuff that implements Steams suggestion "We suggest enhancing the value of legitimate copies of your game by using Steamworks features which won't work on non-legitimate copies (e.g. online multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards, trading cards, etc.)." in Epic.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm#1

Whereby, of course, every copy that is not bound to the respective client is viewed as "non-legitimate", even though it perfectly may be and simply being run offline.
Post edited February 16, 2025 by Dawnsinger
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Dawnsinger: […] "Epic Online Services" […]
ty
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Dawnsinger: Whereby, of course, every copy that is not bound to the respective client is viewed as "non-legitimate", even though it perfectly may be and simply being run offline.
This is a real threat that is not being addressed properly.

The gaming industry is a vanguard for the rest of the business community who trade on the Interwebs.

Background:
The three fundamental aspects of privacy are Confidentiality (keeping evildoers from the data) Integrity (preventing tampering either systemic or foreign) and Availability (making sure the owner can access their data) — Yes, the TLA is "CIA".

Complaint:
I have spent, over the last few months, a significant fraction of my day continually re-authenticating with my service provider. (There are legitimate reasons to re-authenticate regularly to ensure the session key is not stale but it has reached ridiculous levels when it affects productivity.)

There is a security crunch coming when the convenience versus security debate will have to be analyzed for the better. Passwords will probably be deprecated sooner than later. (ex-DARPA] Motorola Research Director Regina Dugan.
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scientiae: Apologies for the late comment. What does EOS stand for in this connotation?
Epic Online Services. It's an underlying system which (iirc) can link a game for more social content like a sharable achievement system, but is pretty much built to cause games to fall over if the system isn't detected at launch.

At one stage is was installed side-by-side with the Epic client itself - it was possible (though not recommended for game function) to refuse to install the EOS system on your PC.

Released games on the platform have had updates to finally tie in with this newer part of Epic's platform. It's now much rarer to find a game released on Epic which (after installation) can be run offline and without the client.
Post edited February 16, 2025 by Braggadar
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Braggadar: Epic Online Services. It's an underlying system which (iirc) can link a game for more social content like a sharable achievement system, but is pretty much built to cause games to fall over if the system isn't detected at launch.

At one stage is was installed side-by-side with the Epic client itself - it was possible (though not recommended for game function) to refuse to install the EOS system on your PC.

Released games on the platform have had updates to finally tie in with this newer part of Epic's platform. It's now much rarer to find a game released on Epic which (after installation) can be run offline and without the client.
Thanks for the details. (:

I am less inclined to play newer games after every iteration of these "improvements".
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Dawnsinger: I hazard a guess that it means "Epic Online Services", probably the stuff that implements Steams suggestion "We suggest enhancing the value of legitimate copies of your game by using Steamworks features which won't work on non-legitimate copies (e.g. online multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards, trading cards, etc.)." in Epic.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm#1

Whereby, of course, every copy that is not bound to the respective client is viewed as "non-legitimate", even though it perfectly may be and simply being run offline.
I can not follow your explanation because if you, for whatever reason, want to play a game online using a client... in such a case your game is registered on that client and its legitimacy is always verified.

DRM free simply means that it can even be run offline without any client in any case... even permanently. Sure, there will be no online achievements or other online traits doing so... yet many users do not want to use those online traits on a "non online game".

The only reason i ever connect online... is if i actually play a online-only game (and of course in order to download a game)... which makes sense to me. I do not care achievements (a achievement can be bound to the game itself, and if someone is connecting, the achievement will be synced with the server... although DRM is usually avoiding this method). I always mod the games myself... without "external help". Steamworks is simply a mod platform and by far not the only one.

DRM is critical even on that matter because some "modders" may even adapt their launcher or manager to the client-environment (they want to be stick to the rules they say and most gamers loving it) which basically adds another DRM-layer... just very ugly... in such a case even foreign "developers" are helping out this platform in order to "cement" this game to this platform forever... instead of making it free.

Its exactly the stuff Google has been doing for a long time already and yes... they are not avoidable anymore, their power is above anyone else, as almost anyone is supporting their environment... the same way devs are supporting the Steam environment... almost exclusively: There can be no better DRM... even Denuvo is weaker than this.

It works exactly like this if people use Galaxy... as this is a optional client.
Post edited February 19, 2025 by Xeshra