THIS!!

I will not respond to every post that wrote to me, just clarify the situation crystal clear:
If someone thinks that the DRM-Free version of the game and without achievements is more curtailed/truncated/stripped-down or in some other way worse, compared with the version of the game tightly tied to the store's client, with DRM and with achievements, then these people have chosen the wrong store.
There are game stores where you get your "better" version because there are achievements in it. Using such stores you will make yourself and others happier. And there, and here.

Thank you for the idea.But I like GOG in general, and I enjoy Galaxy and the features it offers. And since I've been around for sometime.

The problem isn't the store, but some devs who simply consider us(GOGers) second class. And I don't really like that.

But hey, in the end of the day, there's no point in arguing about such things. Since it's only natural for us "humies" to have different interests.

Good day to you!

Ok, i personally don't care for achievements but i do can understand that some people want it because of wanting 100% parity with Steam since they pay same amount of money or more sometimes on GOG and for that reason i hope they get their way some day but in the end beggars (GOG users) can't be choosers. Galaxy achievements is utterly useless for offline installers though.

I can also understand that some devs want to do extra work for "achievements" and instead of jump into the next project and GOG don't have the userbase yet for it to be lucrative, as long as peope rather go to Steam that is unlikely to change.

No it is not. At least it isn't if it is properly implemented, and the fact that Gog's build has very loose coupling with Galaxy means it is done right.
How it most likely happens inside your computer is like this: The game eventually recognizes a certain condition has been met and launches a function "Display achievement number XX" . This function first checks whether Galaxy is installed and running (actually, this is probably made much earlier, when starting the game, but bear with me). There are a few ways to do this check, like maybe asking the Windows registry "Is there a key with this particular name at this particular node?" If not, just carry on. The game won't crash and burn because Galaxy isn't installed or hasn't been loaded. It will just see a NO, shrug and keep on.

If however Galaxy is there, the game wil send it a message with the game's ID and the achievement ID and resume with no need for an answer. Galaxy will take care of the rest and the game won't be affected either way.

The problem isn't the "devs who simply consider us(GOGers) second class". This devs consider GOGers as first class and give us DRM-Free version. Second class gets a version tied to the client and with DRM (demonstrating that you are considered a potential thief).
The problem is that some users here find achievement more important than clientless and DRM-Free. These people got here by mistake and try to make another Steam here.

But hey, in the end of the day, if there's no point in arguing about such things, why are you doing this (again in this topic)? This is a rhetorical question.

I've been a programmer for 35 years so I too can speculate on how it's implemented. But, like you, I don't know that for a fact and so I'm not keen on this integration for the reasons that I've given. I've seen too many failures from external dependencies behaving in unexpected ways, especially in code paths that are not extensively tested (which will always be the case for the less popular platform).

As I already said in my previous posts, it's probably not ever going to be a problem and I'm worrying unnecessarily. But it's an additional risk which I personally would rather not have with my precious DRM free builds. Unless you can see into the future, you're unlikely to convince me otherwise.

because it's not the end of the day yet.

Achievements aren't just a feature of your GOG/Steam/etc. client, they are a feature of the game itself.
It's up to the game to show them (which means implementing additional UI) or just rely on such clients to display them (which GOG supports via GOG Galaxy to make it as simple as possible for developers to get started).

I've brought up Shovel Knight which is a game implementing achievements (called feats there) in all its DRM-free versions and it is not connected to servers.


There is no problem with supporting achievements via GOG Galaxy and still being DRM-free without GOG Galaxy.

Also: Achievements aren't even necessarily tied to any store, or their clients (or client DLLs etc.).

Except for the rollback feature I don't use GOG Galaxy but I wish it a tremendous success since these convenience features are necessary to get a larger user base, so sometime in the future GOG can actually compete with bigger stores regarding sales instead of its niche existence.

It doesn't need to be but unfortunately GOG's implementation seems to (or at least some games are implementing it that way).

I just picked the first game by date released from my GOG library which has achievements (Blood: Fresh Supply), downloaded the "offline backup installer" and installed it. The game runs fine.

However, if I delete Galaxy64.dll, the game will no longer start due to the missing DLL. I have never installed Galaxy on this machine.

I realise you weren't replying to me but I never said that achievements were DRM. Rather I said that I don't like unnecessary dependencies to external DLLs being added to my games to add features that I don't want (achievements, cloud saves, overlays). If they were completely restricted to the version installed via Galaxy then it would be fine. But that would be virtually impossible for things that need to trigger from in game events.

Worse, achievements are being retrospectively added to games in the GOG catalog over time which means this unnecessary dependency and additional (potential) point of failure is being added to more and more of my games. I don't like that and simply wanted to point out to those constantly saying that we should all stop being selfish as there is no downside to having achievements that, actually, there is a potential downside - one which goes against the original reason I started shopping here: having archival copies of games unencumbered by ties to a store or client.

The Achievement-stripped versions are certainly worse in terms of having a feature removed from the game for no good reason, but that was removed only because the devs couldn't be bothered to do the very small amount of work to include Galaxy Achievements, even though them doing so is necessary in order to give GOG customers a game that is equal to the supposedly(but not really) identical game on Steam.

No, buying a DRM-infested version will not make us happy. We want the games to be DRM-free and not to have the game be a feature-removed (i.e. taking away Achievements) version as a result of it being DRM-free. That's a perfectly reasonable expectation. And it's a matter of principle, namely equal treatment.

No, we didn't "choose the wrong store" because we insist on being treated equally to customers on a different store. Rather, the devs/publishers chose to be unethical by not caring that we are getting an inferior version. And GOG is complicit in that by allowing such devs/publishers to release feature-removed, equality-busting games on its platform, even though GOG doesn't have to allow that.

Many customers like myself are not going to buy games on Steam from publishers that treat GOG customers like second-class citizens by not bothering to give us Achievements. Rather, we simply won't buy those games at all. So it's a lose/lose situation for everyone.

Whereas if the devs/publishers & GOG instead chose to do the right thing, and insisted that all customers must be treated equally regardless of platform, and therefore will always be given a feature-equal version of the game regardless of where they bought it from, then it would be a win/win for everyone. I'd like it a lot more if THQ Nordic would stop treating GOG customers like second-class citizens by not bothering to give us Achievements on many/most of your games that do have Steam Achievements.

Please do the right/ethical thing and fix this problem, by committing to add Achievements to every single one of your GOG games that do have Achievements on Steam (including old games like Battlechasers).

No, that reply is not awesome at all. In fact, it's highly condescending, patronizing, and insulting!

The exact same kind of pejorative statement could also easily be leveled against the poster who made it (and also everyone who upvoted his offensive post) with the purpose of infantalizing people who like Achievements. For example, why does the author of that comment play games? Whatever reasons he possibly cites, it would always be just as easy to re-frame any answer he gives as: he plays them because he's been trained by large corporations to respond to his pleasure hormones.

By the same token, what, precisely, makes his reasons for playing games "more valid" and "superior" to the reason that some people like earning Achievements from their games?

OK, but those are added to games which already had them in the first place, they just weren't yet in the "DRM-free GOG Edition".
It's unlikely that achievements will be added to actual old games.

I can understand that you don't want unnecessary dependencies. Also this particular DLL is quite large!

But if we are talking about future-proofing then the Galaxy DLL is probably least of our concerns.
The game may depend on the DLL but the dependencies of the Galaxy DLL are just regular Windows libraries.
Even if it should break something in the future it will likely affect all kinds of GOG games and will be fixed rather sooner than later (even by 3rd party).

Other dependencies are more likely to cause problems, e.g. stuff like DirectX versions on (future) operating systems.


It should be made as easy as possible for developers to work with GOG, which includes the process of getting a game on the platform but also regarding development, e.g. to make use of GOG Galaxy features.
It's easier to let them just make one GOG Build instead of two and use GOG's DLL to handle the optional communication with GOG Galaxy.

I'd say the benefits outweigh possible issues with this DLL (which is to make it for developers as easy and as attractive to support GOG features, even if you don't need them but it makes them on-par with e.g. Steam builds).

Yep, you're quite right and I misspoke. I think the Galaxy DLL is being added to old games (even DOS games) more for cloud saves than for achievements.
Yes that's definitely true. Keeping Windows games running is a nightmare and getting worse with Windows 10. I was simply objecting to additional points of failure being added, especially ones that likely wouldn't be patched by the games developer if GOG wasn't around anymore.

Thanks for the rational responses - it's good to know that reasonable debate can still happen even when people are on different sides of the argument!

achievements; teh thread
(an' i like 'em, but c'moooooooooooon)

so is this game any good?
seems abit 'boys toys' for me, an' yet it stirs somethang deep within...