Any chance we will see this on GOG? I like the art and "old school turn based RPGs", so it got potential. Of course hard to say for now how it may turn out but the direction is clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIXHje3OaE

Well, according to the "strech goals", apart from Steam, GOG, itch.io and 3 console platforms are considered.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/primitivepixels/seed-of-nostalgia

They confirmed it on the kickstarter page :)

The game will initially be in the English language, however additional localizations may become available dependent on stretch goals. We want as many players as possible to be able to experience Seed of Nostalgia, with your help, we can get there.

I am always a bit worried because we already had publishers who said on Kickstarters "they gonna make a GOG release" and at the release they may all of a sudden change their opinion.

A case i still remember was "Sea of Stars", during Kickstarters which made them over 1 million coins there, they said "there will be a GOG release" and at the release all of a sudden they was dropping out of it and got no issue reimbursing any backer asking for a GOG version. It was pretty strict to them... not a "unfortunate event".

Right at this point, they probably got several million sales worldwide, so a big success for a indie game. However, this was across many platforms. Steam is included, which is no secret... nor is it a secret having Nintendo and Playstation (PS4 and PS5) being part of it. Not that well known is that PS4 and PS5 both got a physical copy of the game, as well Nintendo... so no E-Shop only. Additionally they even was releasing a version on Xbox One and Xbox Series, as well several cloud platforms (xCloud and GeforceNow). So in total, i can barely count... it seems 8 different platforms with a own version each. They surely was not lazy with the publishing, a lot of work there.

However... yes, neither GOG nor EGS was "part of it".

Currently the game is at version 1.1.53846 with the probably final major update, which is called Equinox back in November 2024. Probably not to difficult putting it on GOG but it seems they simply have no interest anymore.

I got me the PS5 BD, but the only reason i got it is because it is a PS5 BD (second best option right after GOG) and because it is usually rare for Indie games getting a physical release (physical releases are becoming more scarce than ever). Without a PS5 BD... i would not have paid a single cent.

What can be said for sure: DRM was not the issue because their game has been "shared" almost day 1 i assume... which usually happens without a very hard DRM (Denuvo scale). They simply did not care for whatever reason.

I hope i do not see much more of such examples... as it is always lowering my trust and even my interest into "funding something" will almost fade. Not everyone is acting this way but ultimately it may hurt everyone.

I'm not enthusiastic about KickCheater projects. Also, call me an old fuddy duddy, but I prefer less turn based and more Action in my RPG, akin to the Mana games, so this is a pretty hard pass for me.

I like turn-based RPGs, so upvoted on the dreamlist.

https://www.gog.com/dreamlist/game/seed-of-nostalgia

The way I see it, what you're looking for aren't RPGs at all, but rather action games that just happen to have a few mechanics that are common in RPGs.

When I'm looking for an RPG, it pretty much needs to be turn-based, or at least close to turn-based, or I will not consider it.

(With that said, if I'm *not* looking for an RPG, I will consider such games.)

I am not that strict because of several reasons. A lot of games got several elements inside a certain genre, so it is always hard to exactly specify the game. Another issue is that it simply gets to complicated if i try to use near countless of "subgenres" for games that may offer near the same experience such as a main genre.

Metroidvania for example is clearly no RPG, but it still may have many RPG elements (such as stats growth and a lot of customization). However... its main genre is the Adventure genre.

On the other hand, many people consider a game like Zelda a RPG but it got actually rather few RPG elements as the game feels more like "Action Adventure" and officially it is as well considered "Action Adventure". So i even dunno why some people even compare it with a game like "Seiken Densetsu" (Mana series) which is actually way more of a RPG, yet still not a "clean RPG"... rather a mix between RPG and Action Adventure.

Some of those "hybrid genres" are as well inside my entries. What i ultimately consider is simply "how it feels"... but in fact, in many cases it is hard making a classification.

"Chained Echoes" for example is a very clean RPG, comparable to "Seed of Nostalgia". "Cross Code" or "Tangledeep" on the other hand is rather a mix between Adventure and RPG, but the visual "main style" is 2D + Retro. To me the expression or impression, its art, is just as important than its gameplay.

A true Action Adventure, and possibly with the subgenre "Metroidvania" is clearly another genre. A genre which is nowadays pretty bloated up already because simply popular.

Although, Metroidvania does not mean 2D only... it can as well be fully 3D. So i got one of them inside the non 2D Action Adventure genre known as "Pseudoregalia".

For me, ultimately is it based on "how it feels" and "how it looks", but not making it to complicated... over 20 main genres is enough already.

I do enjoy turn-based combat, basically the classic approach, but the battle system can be very action based, even for a RPG such as the stuff we see on "Seiken Densetsu", "Cross Code" or "Tangledeep".

Roguelike i do not consider a "main genre", but it seems very popular nowadays. It simply is describing a certain mechanics which is for example used as well on old Castlevanias for a eternity already, which may involve "no custom saves", "perma death" and whatelse.

Ultimately, to me Seed of Nostalgia is simply part of the "Retro Style 2D RPG".

Tangledeep is a roguelike. It may not use ASCII graphics, and there's some semblance of meta-progression (you keep equipment), except on the permadeath mode. but it's still a roguelike in every other respect. Enemies move only when you do, so the game is turn based.

I would not consider Tangledeep an adventure game at all.

By the way, some characteristics that I consider to be genre-defining; games without the characteristic should not be classified as being in the genre.
* Adventure: There are scripted puzzles. (Example: Having to use item X at location Y to continue.) Note that this is different from the puzzles in puzzle games.
* Puzzle: There are puzzles that are defined by and coded as a specific set of rules. (For example, perhaps matching 3 in a row causes them to disappear; that's the sort of rule that would fit a puzzle game.)
* RPG: The result of an action is determined by the character's abilities, not the player's abilities. (For example, whether you hit is determined by a dice roll (or is guaranteed) rather than by a collision check.)
* Action: GAme runs in real time, and uses collision checks or similar mechanics to determine the success of player actions.
* Strategy: There must be a positional element to gameplay. (Maybe there needs to be some rule requiring multiple units controlled by the player?)
* Survival: There needs to be a strong element of resource management in the game. (Anyone know of any resource-free survival games?) I do consider roguelike to be a main genre, and I specifically require procedural generation, and turn-based non-modal gameplay. (For example, enemies only move when you do, and combat takes place on the main screen.) Note that I actually don't put permadeath as a requirement here (for basically the same reason that I don't consider a growth system to be a requirement for a game to be an RPG).

Games that contain some of those roguelike elements but are not turn-based I classify as "roguelites".

Examples of roguelikes include Rogue, Nethack, Caves of Qud (to my understanding), and Tangledeep.

(Note that you have games like the DROD series that might sort of look like a roguelike due to eneimies moving only when you do, but the way the levels are hand crafted and (I believe) deterministic make it a puzzle game. At least that's my understanding, having not played those games.) I see no reason to put them in different categories.

The first Mana game, Final Fantasy Adventure, is basically Zelda with XP-based leveling and a more linear structure; those differences, to me, don't warrant a change in genre classification.

For me to put both the Action and RPG labels on the same game, it would need to be something like The Magic of Schehezade. That game mostly plays like Zelda with RPG growth mechanic, but every now and then, when you go from one screen to the next, the game enters a turn-based RPG-stye battle system. An Action Adventure game, to me, would need to have strong adventure game elements; I'm thinking something like La Mulana here. (Case in point: La Mulana 1 has some issues with moon logic, which is a design flaw that is specific to adventure games.)

I still say the Infinity engine system (Baldur's Gate 1-2, Icewind Dale 1-2, Planescape: Torment) is the most suitable for me, ie. realtime with autopause. The default autopause settings are not good though so you need to change them a bit, ie. autopause on important events.

That combat system just flows nicely without constantly interrupting you (turn-based) or being too much dependent on your action gaming skills.

I actually found it to be the worst of possible worlds, combining the flaw of both systems while lacking both the rhythm of turn-based and the fluidity of real-time.

Thing is, with RTwP, you either:
* Have to be quick to press the pause button (spacebar IIRC) before things get too far out of control; I consider this to be a dependence on action gaming skills
* Get constant autopauses at irregular (and unpredictable) intervals, making the battle not really flow
* Or worse, get both, as the autopause settings cover some situations (including some "false positives" where you just resume), but not all.

At first, "roguelike" is mainly a marketing instrument for me because the game which actually was "giving its name for"... known as "Rogue" was a very primitive ASCII graphic based game that was almost entirely based on those mechanics. It was somewhat pretty special so we was calling it "rogue-like" for any game which may have something in common.

Nonetheless... comparing it with clearly more complex games in "other aspects" and with the common main elements (which was not really apparent in the very old classic time), is not the best fit to me, as those "forerunners" simply was way to abstract and almost entirely focused on those mechanics.

At some later point, the games became more of a "immersive experience", and less of a purely raw "mechanical experience", so the focus and ultimately the perception has been shifted, toward something that is more "whole". It does not mean it is better, this is all a matter of preference and the things we simply enjoy. Some people enjoy a very raw game almost entirely based on mechanics (Chess is such a game for example) and other gamers... including me... are enjoying a immersive experience a lot. So, i kinda got a different focus and perception toward games. The mechanics is always playing a role but to me the art and the atmosphere... the immersive aspect... is in many cases even more important.

A game with, in my view... bad art... already failed... even if it can provide good mechanics and good gameplay, because it it just not enough. However... good art can be almost everywhere... even at the level of something very primitive... it got nothing to do with the "amount of pixels" or "the amount of shaders or textures".

Anyway... yes we both surely got a different perception and for you the "mechanical aspect" is playing a big role... to me... it is in many cases secondary. In this term i totally understand if you put something related to its mechanics "on the very first spot, even turning it into a main genre", but it surely is a individual thing. I do agree because it simply lacks the required experience i do expect from a adventure and the strict battle system, which is to some extend a fluid turn based system, makes it even harder to "pair" with adventure. It got more of RPG elements, but even on that one it does not suit it well. Is it a clean rogue-like based on its mechanics? Well, i do still not feel this way... it is rather a complicated mix without a certain direction and it does even lack a clear "main genre" for me. It is pretty unique, because i feel a lot of paradoxon, in a weird yet good way. Guess thats not "adventure only", i am able to see those "linear or primitive puzzles" almost everywhere... There are actually even RPGs or Action Adventures with pretty advanced puzzles inside, although... a puzzle game to me is with a very high focus on "solving them" which is perhaps filling up half or even more of the game in some way. A rather rare genre, yet i got 8 games i do consider with a major focus on puzzle-gameplay. Not sure... newest example of a game i absolutely do consider "RPG" is Kingdome Come Deliverance II, but there is no turn-based battle system, instead collisions and the required skills for it are playing a role. No doubt on those statements i would say, because it would be pretty odd if it is any different than that. Well, to me the XP-based leveling and the in general rich story (although Zelda may have it too) is exactly the "final straw" able to break the camels "adventure-back"; but obviously, you may have to consider stat growth as an RPG element, else it might not add any more weight.

Nonetheless... the Mana-titles that came after this had even more focus on RPG... while Zelda never seemed to move into a higher focus... it was always a strict Action Adventure with a lot of story.

I do not get the expression of "The Magic of Scheherazade" having any true "turn based combat". It is, if at all... very primitive doing so. True turn based combat someone may experience on a game like Suikoden or even Final Fantasy 13 which in fact is not "waiting for a next turn", it rather got a certain cycle but apart from that it is fully fluid, without any stops. This is cleary a Action Adventure...

There's actually a rather famous definition of "roguelike" called the Berlin Interpretation (https://roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation). Even though I don't entirely agree with it, let's analyze how Tangledeep fairs.

Random environment generation: Yes (except for boss fights and certain special areas, like the endgame, but then again games like Nethack have some fixed areas)

Permadeath: Approximately yes. (Harsh death penalties, frequent auto-saving (including on death), and an actual permadeath mode.)

Turn-based: Yes

Grid-based: Yes

Non-modal: Yes (don't remember if town is an exception here)

Complexity: Maybe not as much as some, at least in the sense described.

Resource management: Yes (no food IIRC, but the lack of health/mana regen has a similar impact; potions and healing food are also resources).

Hack'n'slash: Yes

Exploration and discovery: Yes, except that I don't remember there being unidentified items

Single player character: Yes (I don't count pets here)

Monsters are similar to players: No

Tactical challenge: Yes

ASCII display: No

Dungeons: Yes

Numbers: Yes

I surely can agree on many aspects of those "definitions" but my biggest criticism is as well the same criticism that some other critics already told related to the "Berlin Interpretation"; which means the very high focus, the prioritizing on "gameplay mechanics" while to some extend neglecting the importance of aesthetics and settings. To some extend the art and settings concern is almost entirely "non existent".

I do absolutely understand where this issue is coming from. Because those "fans" and lovers of the roguelike genre (in my mind subgenre but... of course this is my personal perception) are in many cases very puristic and they enjoy a puristic experience. So, indeed they naturally put a very high focus on the matters and experience truly important to them.

I am... perhaps... the inconvenient entity trying to see something that might appear already complete, even more complete... and in that sense, to me... finally able to achieve what i do consider a "full scale experience" with all the bells and whistles we got available.

Tangledeep, yes it got a strong Roguelike focus, but it as well got many "bells and whistles"... it is adding a lot of glitter and glamour not truly necessary for the "core experience" (ASCII is all we need), because yes, it was considering other aspects of the game as well.

It is surely important even to take into account the actual views of the devs... and those are somewhat revealed:

With the "most true intention" actually in his title:

Hand-tuning procedurally-generated map content in my dungeon crawler!°°

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/6gx9ke/handtuning_procedurallygenerated_map_content_in/

Finally, it turned out going into the Roguelike direction way more than he actually, in the beginning, "had in mind". Some of its history and how it has been created has been revealed here.

Besides: Not trying to completely putting the topic of the rail, yet it will still be many years for the game i was bringing up in the main topic to become released... the dev is at the very beginning right now, yet it looks like we may see another "high quality indie game".

°°Dungeon Crawler is basically a RPG setting.

Looking at that reddit post, I do find one conclusion that does not match my experience with the genre: What I've found is that:
* 10 monsters in a tight corridor isn't too bad; at most there will be 2 melee attacking you at a time, and that's only if 1 manages to sneak behind you.
* 10 monsters in a single room, however, can lead to situations where you're attacked by a whole bunch at once. Unless you have room clearing attacks (which can be quite powerful; it's one of the reasons Driftloom is so powerful in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2), that's going to be a problem. Quite a few deaths are the result of trying to fight too many enemies at once (and are the sort of situation where you're scrambling through your inventory looking for *something* that might save you).