It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Thanks for all the info
avatar
timppu: Here is one example, I think Logitech Dual Action USB gamepad was pretty "popular", as popular as PC gamepads were before XBox360 and XInput made them more common:

https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ch/articles/360025260354--Product-Gallery-Dual-Action-Gamepad

https://www.ebay.com/p/1600725933

I think it is pretty apparent in those pictures that the analog range of movement is a square. IIRC I had one of these gamepads at some point (possibly still do somewhere in the closet, unless I threw it away). I also had some cheapo no-name or unknown brand PC gamepad which looked somewhat similar (like a PS2 gamepad), and it also had squares.

As I mentioned, at some point it occurred to me how my PS2 gamepad and those PC gamepads were different in that regard, I recall wondering why there is such a difference.

Well, it is a problem if the game is expecting the range of movement of the analog controller to be a square, as then you can't necessarily reach the whole range of movement diagonally. That seems to be the case with Prince of Persia: Sands of Time PC version, as well as pretty much any older flightstick game.
Wow yeah, those old Logitech pads are freaky! The ones I had definitely had circular gates. In fact in hindsight the ones I had were probably designed as third party PS1 controllers and just had the internals adapted to produce a directinput PC version. I can't recall how they showed up in the calibration on Windows 95 though so I'm not sure whether it was "circle inside a square" or "circle clipped into a square".

I agree that was definitely the problem with PoP, it's just that I'd always assumed it was poor programming on the part of Ubisoft since the only PC gamepads I'd ever had had circular/octagonal gates. I still maintain that a circular gate is a more sensible design for a game where you're controlling a person as what you need to measure is a vector from the centre of the stick (direction and distance).
If the game needs to reach the corner of the square for you to run diagonally then you're moving it further from the centre than you need to to run forwards and that strikes me as a strange way to design controls, square range or not.
I'll have to logitech to my list of shitty websites and they're products don't seem as good as they were in the past apart from maybe a steering wheel.

avatar
my name is supyreor catte: Wait, so did those PS2 lookalike gamepads look like PS2 pads with square gates around the sticks? Or are you just saying that you could reach the corners in the Windows calibration utility? I too have had PS2 lookalike gamepads, one pre-USB joystick port one - they all had circular gates.
avatar
timppu: Here is one example, I think Logitech Dual Action USB gamepad was pretty "popular", as popular as PC gamepads were before XBox360 and XInput made them more common:

https://support.logi.com/hc/en-ch/articles/360025260354--Product-Gallery-Dual-Action-Gamepad

https://www.ebay.com/p/1600725933

I think it is pretty apparent in those pictures that the analog range of movement is a square. IIRC I had one of these gamepads at some point (possibly still do somewhere in the closet, unless I threw it away). I also had some cheapo no-name or unknown brand PC gamepad which looked somewhat similar (like a PS2 gamepad), and it also had squares.
The pads I remember had circles including logitechs flightsticks but the calibration area was a box.
Which might cause the opposite problem from the prince of persia where the actual input is neither a square nor a circle giving inconsistent aiming depending on how the game handles that information.
avatar
§pec†re: The pads I remember had circles including logitechs flightsticks but the calibration area was a box.
I am not even sure how that is supposed to work...

Can you remember the exact models of such (DirectInput) gamepads and flightsticks with a round range of movement?

I just checked the three flightsticks that I still own (from the oldest to the newest):

Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro
Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2
Thrustmaster T.16000m (this I bought only a couple of years ago)

and they all clearly have a square range of movement. As did the CH Flightstick which was my first PC joystick.

It sounds logical that older PC DirectInput gamepads (at least those I've seen and bought in the past, like the aforementioned Logitech Dual Action gamepad) chose to use a square range of movement, in order to stay backwards compatible with PC analog flightsticks, and games that supported them.

Console analog gamepads (PSX, N64, PS2, XBox etc.) had a life of their own with a round range of movement, and these two conflicting worlds merged later when Microsoft brought the XBox 360 console gamepad with its round analog range of movement to Windows, to be its de facto standard XInput gamepad.
Post edited September 03, 2021 by timppu
avatar
§pec†re: The pads I remember had circles including logitechs flightsticks but the calibration area was a box.
avatar
timppu: I am not even sure how that is supposed to work...

Can you remember the exact models of such (DirectInput) gamepads and flightsticks with a round range of movement?
The logitech wingman look like they are circle. Saitek P380 is a gamepad with circle.
Unnessecary since there are Xinput wrappers.