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timppu: -Perspectives of Finland.-
5. And people wonder why the dance traditions are dying out. The sooner they do, the better. Screw em'.

4. Even your irate instructor aside, isn't Finland infamous for having one of the highest grades of difficulty for license requirements?

2. So this isn't just a New World thing.
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Crosmando: History, English etc were all my favorites tbh. Maths though, just something about it just perplexes and stresses me out. I still don't really know my times tables, I am borderline retarded when it comes to anything about maths. I think I barely scraped by grades wise.
Math, for me, was not something I particularly enjoyed or were fascinated with, but I seemed to be doing pretty good at it at least in the high school level, and I liked how it didn't seem to be that much about memorizing different things, but puzzle solving that you can quite often figure out yourself by just dividing the problem to smaller pieces, and/or in several optional ways.

I still remember how proud I was when there was some national math exam where I (and all the other high school math students in the whole country) participated, and there was a problem in an area that I hadn't had time to read and learn yet. There was basically a ready equation to it you could use to quickly solve that question, as long as you knew that equation.

I didn't (as didn't most others, as I think I was the only one in the class who was able to solve it...), but I solved it by using what I knew, and in a long way constructing that needed equation myself. Our teacher specifically commended me for solving that in such an "impressive" way. He seemed to think I was showing off by not just right away using the equation, but first proving the equation in a long way, and then using it. Well, I never admitted to him I did it that way because I simply didn't know the equation...

(Sorry I don't recall anymore what that math problem was, even what area...)


However, physics was more something I actually liked, because it felt to me like math was being used for real life problems. But that was in the high school level; I recall taking some physics classes in the university, and I felt quite overwhelmed how complicated and out of this world it all suddenly felt... So yeah, I guess I liked simpler high-school level physics, not the really advanced physics. I am no Einstein, I guess I am pretty average with my math and physics skills, among those who've taken any classes in them.
Post edited May 21, 2021 by timppu
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Crosmando: History, English etc were all my favorites tbh. Maths though, just something about it just perplexes and stresses me out. I still don't really know my times tables, I am borderline retarded when it comes to anything about maths. I think I barely scraped by grades wise.
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timppu: Math, for me, was not something I particularly liked or were fascinated with, but I seemed to be doing pretty good at it at least in the high school level, and I liked how it didn't seem to be that much about memorizing different things, but puzzle solving that you can quite often figure out yourself by just dividing the problem to smaller pieces, and/or in several optional ways.

I still remember how proud I was when there was some national math exam where I (and all the other high school math students in the whole country) participated, and there was a problem in an area that I hadn't had time to read and learn yet. There was basically a ready equation to it you could use to quickly solve that question, as long as you knew that equation.

I didn't (as didn't most others, as I think I was the only one in the class who was able to solve it...), but I solved it by using what I knew, and in a long way constructing that needed equation myself. Our teacher specifically commended me for solving that in such an "impressive" way. He seemed to think I was showing off by not just right away using the equation, but first proving the equation in a long way, and then using it. Well, I never admitted to him I did it that way because I simply didn't know the equation...

(Sorry I don't recall anymore what that math problem was, even what area...)

However, physics was more something I actually liked, because it felt to me like math was being used for real life problems. But that was in the high school level; I recall taking some physics classes in the university, and I felt quite overwhelmed how complicated and out of this world it all suddenly felt... So yeah, I guess I liked simpler high-school level physics, not the really advanced physics. I am no Einstein, I guess I am pretty average with my math and physics skills, among those who've taken any classes in them.
I love math (even got a master's degree in the subject), but I don't like the way it's taught in school. I don't think the high school math curriculum has the best choice of topics (I think there should be some number theory and discrete math instead of geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calc), and I don't like how, in a typical homework assignment (and they were typically assigned every day, and due the next), you are basically doing the same thing over and over again.

It didn't help that, in my geometry class, the teacher made us write out the definitions of SSS/SAS etc. every time we use them. (No, not just writing "Side Angle Side", but writing out the *entire* definition of the term as provided in the textbook.) That turned what would have been nice reasonably quick homeword assignments into rote time-wasting torture.

Or, I has a Spanish teacher who required us to translate *everything* into English, which prevents us from learning to process thoughts in the language itself.

By the way, to me the puzzle solving aspect of school mathematics doesn't start until you get to the proof-oriented classes in college, by which point the student has already passed the math requirements for every major except math itself.

Edit: On that last point, there are a few little exceptions (integration being the biggest one from what I remember), but they're the exception not the rule at this point.
Post edited May 21, 2021 by dtgreene
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timppu: Math, for me, was not something I particularly liked or were fascinated with, but I seemed to be doing pretty good at it at least in the high school level, and I liked how it didn't seem to be that much about memorizing different things, but puzzle solving that you can quite often figure out yourself by just dividing the problem to smaller pieces, and/or in several optional ways.

I still remember how proud I was when there was some national math exam where I (and all the other high school math students in the whole country) participated, and there was a problem in an area that I hadn't had time to read and learn yet. There was basically a ready equation to it you could use to quickly solve that question, as long as you knew that equation.

I didn't (as didn't most others, as I think I was the only one in the class who was able to solve it...), but I solved it by using what I knew, and in a long way constructing that needed equation myself. Our teacher specifically commended me for solving that in such an "impressive" way. He seemed to think I was showing off by not just right away using the equation, but first proving the equation in a long way, and then using it. Well, I never admitted to him I did it that way because I simply didn't know the equation...

(Sorry I don't recall anymore what that math problem was, even what area...)

However, physics was more something I actually liked, because it felt to me like math was being used for real life problems. But that was in the high school level; I recall taking some physics classes in the university, and I felt quite overwhelmed how complicated and out of this world it all suddenly felt... So yeah, I guess I liked simpler high-school level physics, not the really advanced physics. I am no Einstein, I guess I am pretty average with my math and physics skills, among those who've taken any classes in them.
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dtgreene: I love math (even got a master's degree in the subject), but I don't like the way it's taught in school. I don't think the high school math curriculum has the best choice of topics (I think there should be some number theory and discrete math instead of geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calc), and I don't like how, in a typical homework assignment (and they were typically assigned every day, and due the next), you are basically doing the same thing over and over again.

It didn't help that, in my geometry class, the teacher made us write out the definitions of SSS/SAS etc. every time we use them. (No, not just writing "Side Angle Side", but writing out the *entire* definition of the term as provided in the textbook.) That turned what would have been nice reasonably quick homeword assignments into rote time-wasting torture.

Or, I has a Spanish teacher who required us to translate *everything* into English, which prevents us from learning to process thoughts in the language itself.

By the way, to me the puzzle solving aspect of school mathematics doesn't start until you get to the proof-oriented classes in college, by which point the student has already passed the math requirements for every major except math itself.

Edit: On that last point, there are a few little exceptions (integration being the biggest one from what I remember), but they're the exception not the rule at this point.
Have you read the Mathematician's Lament? It's a bit cheesy and corny, but I've come to agree with the guy's assessment. We largely just don't understand what we're even doing, anymore, and the result is making it so people are unable to handle certain abstract derivatives. It's kind of like how a preacher or preist tells you "this is the only way to do it," and that's how we teach it, so when the student sees some kind of alternative usage of something (like equals as assignment) it's causing at least 1 out of 3 (at least for the average programming dropout rates, and we've found that this is indeed the cause from some tests) programming students to drop out: what they're being told is akin to denying gravity as far as they're concerned.
My biggest stressors came halfway through high school. For the first half, I was the "quiet kid." I was cool with most people, but I always felt alone. At the end of my sophomore year, I decided to open up a bit more and started talking with people more. There was this super pretty popular girl who I was talking to -- it started with me just asking for homework, and then by the end of the summer before my junior we were dating. That was the first time I had ever been in a relationship, and, as much as I don't believe it now, I think I was in love.

Long story short, during an argument, I said sum I shouldn't have and got dumped. What made it worse was me trying all that I could to fix it -- this only resulted in me getting crushed even harder. It didn't help that the people I considered my friends began to ridicule me and ignore me. My grades began to take heavy hits. Since my ex was really the only one I ever opened up to, I bottled my feelings up until I couldn't anymore and ended up in therapy.

This isn't something to be proud of, but I'm a very good liar. And even though therapy was my choice, I did not open up much, which led to the therapist concluding I was good to go after 2 months of treatment.

Honestly, it disgusts me to say this, but the pandemic saved me. I could not go to school anymore. Right now, all I want to do is finish high school and never talk to anyone from there ever again. I don't ever wanna look back again.
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poogry: Honestly, it disgusts me to say this, but the pandemic saved me. I could not go to school anymore. Right now, all I want to do is finish high school and never talk to anyone from there ever again. I don't ever wanna look back again.
A huge trope, but HS becomes practically meaningless in hindsight later on in life, even a few years on. At the time it's your whole life, then you laugh how pointless it actually was. You meet people you genuinely like to be with, and that does you good.
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poogry: My biggest stressors came halfway through high school. For the first half, I was the "quiet kid." I was cool with most people, but I always felt alone. At the end of my sophomore year, I decided to open up a bit more and started talking with people more. There was this super pretty popular girl who I was talking to -- it started with me just asking for homework, and then by the end of the summer before my junior we were dating. That was the first time I had ever been in a relationship, and, as much as I don't believe it now, I think I was in love.

Long story short, during an argument, I said sum I shouldn't have and got dumped. What made it worse was me trying all that I could to fix it -- this only resulted in me getting crushed even harder. It didn't help that the people I considered my friends began to ridicule me and ignore me. My grades began to take heavy hits. Since my ex was really the only one I ever opened up to, I bottled my feelings up until I couldn't anymore and ended up in therapy.

This isn't something to be proud of, but I'm a very good liar. And even though therapy was my choice, I did not open up much, which led to the therapist concluding I was good to go after 2 months of treatment.

Honestly, it disgusts me to say this, but the pandemic saved me. I could not go to school anymore. Right now, all I want to do is finish high school and never talk to anyone from there ever again. I don't ever wanna look back again.
My experience is that when everyone turns their backs on you, what you did wasn't all that wrong, but instead precisely the right thing to do. You're making me very curious. I've also found that this weirdly is often to make you and keep you dishonest. The fundamental issue you have here is, on one hand you are implying you don't want to deal with people, but on the other hand you can't be honest. What you're secretly saying is, you really, really need some sort of community, but you're afraid of ostracism, so it's easier to reject everyone else than it is to risk rejection yourself, rather than some lack of desire of human contact. You clearly want it, or it'd be way, way easier to deal with the rejection.
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dtgreene: I love math (even got a master's degree in the subject), but I don't like the way it's taught in school. I don't think the high school math curriculum has the best choice of topics (I think there should be some number theory and discrete math instead of geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calc), and I don't like how, in a typical homework assignment (and they were typically assigned every day, and due the next), you are basically doing the same thing over and over again.

It didn't help that, in my geometry class, the teacher made us write out the definitions of SSS/SAS etc. every time we use them. (No, not just writing "Side Angle Side", but writing out the *entire* definition of the term as provided in the textbook.) That turned what would have been nice reasonably quick homeword assignments into rote time-wasting torture.

Or, I has a Spanish teacher who required us to translate *everything* into English, which prevents us from learning to process thoughts in the language itself.

By the way, to me the puzzle solving aspect of school mathematics doesn't start until you get to the proof-oriented classes in college, by which point the student has already passed the math requirements for every major except math itself.

Edit: On that last point, there are a few little exceptions (integration being the biggest one from what I remember), but they're the exception not the rule at this point.
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kohlrak: Have you read the Mathematician's Lament? It's a bit cheesy and corny, but I've come to agree with the guy's assessment. We largely just don't understand what we're even doing, anymore, and the result is making it so people are unable to handle certain abstract derivatives. It's kind of like how a preacher or preist tells you "this is the only way to do it," and that's how we teach it, so when the student sees some kind of alternative usage of something (like equals as assignment) it's causing at least 1 out of 3 (at least for the average programming dropout rates, and we've found that this is indeed the cause from some tests) programming students to drop out: what they're being told is akin to denying gravity as far as they're concerned.
I think I've actually ran into this text in some book I have somewhere.

(By the way, I *do* happen to have a decent understanding of music theory, more than you would expect for the average amateur musician who didn't study music in college.)
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kohlrak: Have you read the Mathematician's Lament? It's a bit cheesy and corny, but I've come to agree with the guy's assessment. We largely just don't understand what we're even doing, anymore, and the result is making it so people are unable to handle certain abstract derivatives. It's kind of like how a preacher or preist tells you "this is the only way to do it," and that's how we teach it, so when the student sees some kind of alternative usage of something (like equals as assignment) it's causing at least 1 out of 3 (at least for the average programming dropout rates, and we've found that this is indeed the cause from some tests) programming students to drop out: what they're being told is akin to denying gravity as far as they're concerned.
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dtgreene: I think I've actually ran into this text in some book I have somewhere.

(By the way, I *do* happen to have a decent understanding of music theory, more than you would expect for the average amateur musician who didn't study music in college.)
If not, you can find it just about anywhere, Like here.

For more on what i mean by programming, try this link. You'll find the dropout rate is pretty consistent in collages for programming courses to be about 33%. Now, if you're really interested, i found a solution that'll help those 33%, but seeing as I'm entirely self-taught, no one wants to discuss this with me.Moreover, my answer will sound like heresy, but i've actually managed to find people who failed and make them pass, which, according to the article, is entirely impossible. The problem is that it solves it on a per issue basis, and doesn't undo the fundamental cause of the problem: singular thinking. I can teach those people how to understand assignement instead of equality, but then i move on and have trouble teaching them hex-decimal and binary, because 10b must equal 10d and 10h, because the numbers cannot have different meanings even with said preffices and suffices applied. Once again, that too can be coached out, but it's an uphill battle.
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poogry: My biggest stressors came halfway through high school. For the first half, I was the "quiet kid." I was cool with most people, but I always felt alone. At the end of my sophomore year, I decided to open up a bit more and started talking with people more. There was this super pretty popular girl who I was talking to -- it started with me just asking for homework, and then by the end of the summer before my junior we were dating. That was the first time I had ever been in a relationship, and, as much as I don't believe it now, I think I was in love.

Long story short, during an argument, I said sum I shouldn't have and got dumped. What made it worse was me trying all that I could to fix it -- this only resulted in me getting crushed even harder. It didn't help that the people I considered my friends began to ridicule me and ignore me. My grades began to take heavy hits. Since my ex was really the only one I ever opened up to, I bottled my feelings up until I couldn't anymore and ended up in therapy.

This isn't something to be proud of, but I'm a very good liar. And even though therapy was my choice, I did not open up much, which led to the therapist concluding I was good to go after 2 months of treatment.

Honestly, it disgusts me to say this, but the pandemic saved me. I could not go to school anymore. Right now, all I want to do is finish high school and never talk to anyone from there ever again. I don't ever wanna look back again.
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kohlrak: My experience is that when everyone turns their backs on you, what you did wasn't all that wrong, but instead precisely the right thing to do. You're making me very curious. I've also found that this weirdly is often to make you and keep you dishonest. The fundamental issue you have here is, on one hand you are implying you don't want to deal with people, but on the other hand you can't be honest. What you're secretly saying is, you really, really need some sort of community, but you're afraid of ostracism, so it's easier to reject everyone else than it is to risk rejection yourself, rather than some lack of desire of human contact. You clearly want it, or it'd be way, way easier to deal with the rejection.
I understand. I catch myself doing that too -- ignoring people because they began to ignore me. As you said, I do want a community. That's why I want to finish high school, get out and just make some new friends, you know? But about the people who turned their backs on me, they haven't been the greatest of people to me in the past, so honestly, just another reason to ditch them.

Right now, the only thing holding me back is me, you know? Thanks for your comment though, I appreciate it.
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kohlrak: My experience is that when everyone turns their backs on you, what you did wasn't all that wrong, but instead precisely the right thing to do. You're making me very curious. I've also found that this weirdly is often to make you and keep you dishonest. The fundamental issue you have here is, on one hand you are implying you don't want to deal with people, but on the other hand you can't be honest. What you're secretly saying is, you really, really need some sort of community, but you're afraid of ostracism, so it's easier to reject everyone else than it is to risk rejection yourself, rather than some lack of desire of human contact. You clearly want it, or it'd be way, way easier to deal with the rejection.
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poogry: I understand. I catch myself doing that too -- ignoring people because they began to ignore me. As you said, I do want a community. That's why I want to finish high school, get out and just make some new friends, you know? But about the people who turned their backs on me, they haven't been the greatest of people to me in the past, so honestly, just another reason to ditch them.

Right now, the only thing holding me back is me, you know? Thanks for your comment though, I appreciate it.
The thing is, you gotta learn. I've seen people with the same mentality, they think they can just leave the scenario, go somewhere new, start fresh, only to find the same people with different faces, if you know what i mean. Find out why you're drawn to this BS, and squash it. It's a weird thing, dating: the more you want a woman in your life, the more desparate you are for carnal satisfaction, the harder it is to get it. I can't explain in the most basic terms, here, and i'm getting the impression that you're legally too young for the discussion even if i could, otherwise, so i'll just suffice to say that your dishonesty that results from your despiration and your over-excitability is usually the culprit. To that end, to extend it to the general populous, have the boldness to speak the truth, and if someone says you're wrong, find out if you are or not, without any concern for the ramifications of being right or wrong. Eventually, you'll sort yourself out and, if good people are around, you'll find them. Else, you won't. You only ever attract people to you that are of your level. Dishonest people attract dishonest people and convert honeset people into dishonest people. Look around, dtgreene and I are almost opposites on politics, yet we can co-exist, which is more than i can say for some people. I have the power to hide myself, be a great liar, etc, but what is more fun and amazing is being so damn honest that dishonest people around me are terrified of me (because if you're honest, you don't have to keep as much brainpower in keeping up the lies, and you can use it instead to dismantle the lies and BS around you). Just look at people: see if what they say is consistent with what they do: take yourself for example based on what you said vs what i included. When you start doing that, you find more interesting characters (might not be as honest as you, as that's a rare trait these days, but you do find people whom are much, much more honest and much less manipulative).
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poogry: snip
If you're looking for advice, I advise finding a handful of people to develop quality friendships with. You're the average of the 5 people you surround yourself with as they will affect your daily life more than other significant factors. Friendships might not persist after high school, so you have to put in effort to maintain them like with any relationships. Be unapologetically yourself, but at the same time, choose activities that will improve your character. I personally recommend three: a technical craft like cooking or woodworking, a social hobby like volunteering or music, and one that directly improves your life like reading and exercise.

If you truly desire progressive change, I'd go back to the therapist to work out your issues. I have a feeling your therapist knows you're lying because they work primarily with people and it's a waste of their time to help someone who obviously doesn't want to help themselves.
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poogry: I understand. I catch myself doing that too -- ignoring people because they began to ignore me. As you said, I do want a community. That's why I want to finish high school, get out and just make some new friends, you know? But about the people who turned their backs on me, they haven't been the greatest of people to me in the past, so honestly, just another reason to ditch them.

Right now, the only thing holding me back is me, you know? Thanks for your comment though, I appreciate it.
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kohlrak: The thing is, you gotta learn. I've seen people with the same mentality, they think they can just leave the scenario, go somewhere new, start fresh, only to find the same people with different faces, if you know what i mean. Find out why you're drawn to this BS, and squash it. It's a weird thing, dating: the more you want a woman in your life, the more desparate you are for carnal satisfaction, the harder it is to get it. I can't explain in the most basic terms, here, and i'm getting the impression that you're legally too young for the discussion even if i could, otherwise, so i'll just suffice to say that your dishonesty that results from your despiration and your over-excitability is usually the culprit. To that end, to extend it to the general populous, have the boldness to speak the truth, and if someone says you're wrong, find out if you are or not, without any concern for the ramifications of being right or wrong. Eventually, you'll sort yourself out and, if good people are around, you'll find them. Else, you won't. You only ever attract people to you that are of your level. Dishonest people attract dishonest people and convert honeset people into dishonest people. Look around, dtgreene and I are almost opposites on politics, yet we can co-exist, which is more than i can say for some people. I have the power to hide myself, be a great liar, etc, but what is more fun and amazing is being so damn honest that dishonest people around me are terrified of me (because if you're honest, you don't have to keep as much brainpower in keeping up the lies, and you can use it instead to dismantle the lies and BS around you). Just look at people: see if what they say is consistent with what they do: take yourself for example based on what you said vs what i included. When you start doing that, you find more interesting characters (might not be as honest as you, as that's a rare trait these days, but you do find people whom are much, much more honest and much less manipulative).
I feel you, I feel you. And I'm not legally too young to understand. I know exactly what you mean. There was a time when I and my ex weren't dating, and she commented on her past relationships, calling them all full of drama, etc., etc. I knew something was off there. There were also tons of red flags during the relationship. All of this I ignored because of, what you said, carnal satisfaction. And looking back, the thing I said to her that caused her to dump me wasn't just random hurtful words, they were actually how I genuinely felt. Maybe if I had been honest about it, instead of letting it slip at a bad time, I wouldn't have gone through hell for a while.

I'll take your advice and try to be more honest like you said. Just say it, huh? Thanks though, I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to deal with this bull.
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timppu: However, physics was more something I actually liked, because it felt to me like math was being used for real life problems. ...
That's the great pity of highschool mathematics education in many places it seems. Without massively changing the typical curriculum, you could actually include tons of interesting real world problems in high school mathematics.
But of course you are going to need gifted Math teachers which unfortunately I'm not sure are all that common.
I was quite lucky in this respect: all of my math teachers were either good, very good or excellent. Even though sadly they didn't focus a lot on interesting non-abstract problems.
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poogry: snip
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Canuck_Cat: If you're looking for advice, I advise finding a handful of people to develop quality friendships with. You're the average of the 5 people you surround yourself with as they will affect your daily life more than other significant factors. Friendships might not persist after high school, so you have to put in effort to maintain them like with any relationships. Be unapologetically yourself, but at the same time, choose activities that will improve your character. I personally recommend three: a technical craft like cooking or woodworking, a social hobby like volunteering or music, and one that directly improves your life like reading and exercise.

If you truly desire progressive change, I'd go back to the therapist to work out your issues. I have a feeling your therapist knows you're lying because they work primarily with people and it's a waste of their time to help someone who obviously doesn't want to help themselves.
Hey, thanks for the advice. I have started joining new groups in the past month and trying out new things. Mainly cooking so I can feed myself -- it's honestly surprising to see how many people don't know how to cook. Also, thinking of taking a mechanics class, because I want to restore some classic cars down the line.

"Be unapologetically yourself . . ." I'm trying this at the moment. But I'm at a point where I still don't, fully, know who I am. But, as the years go by, I'll be trying new things out to figure that out.

Again. Thanks for the advice, man. Your words are appreciated.