Wasn't it said before that downreps aren't applied until the next time you post? So whatever -1 you got was from the last day you posted? I'm not sure.

Anyway, I was cleaning my couch today and I found a +1 between the cushions. Here, you can have it.

Meh, thanks but it doesn't really matter. :D

I'd like to toss a tangent out there because I'm fascinated by this thread.
Can a GREAT story and or concept make up for lackluster play? Obviously nothing can make up for completely shit play but can you overlook certain things (mediocre path finding for example) if you are riveted by the plot and the characters?

No, it really didn't. I liked Fallout 3 but I'll be the first to admit that the entire main storyline is a lot of nonsense, especially the ending. Just looking at the ending for a moment, you could have one radiation-immune follower and one follower who's HEALED by radiation, and both of them will refuse to go push a button for you. Why do they do this? Because it's "your" destiny, or some foolishness. Apparently they don't really like you much after all, and care nothing for the welfare of the Capital Wasteland either, since they could easily prevent your death and ensure clean water for everyone with three seconds' worth of easy safe work.

Sure, they released a DLC later that made you only comatose rather than dead, but it didn't address the your-followers-hate-you-and-want-you-and-everyone-else-to-suffer issue.

It all comes down to the quality of the story-telling. If a bad ending feels natural and in tune with the story, so that it leaves you thinking "wow, that was the perfect story, even though it's sad" or something like that, that's a different kind of "bad" than a bad ending just for its own sake, because the developers think it would be cool to shock the players, when the story does not prepare them for such an ending and it's badly implemented, leaving you with the feeling that it's more of a hoax than a fitting ending for the story. In the same vein, an implausible happy ending can be bad, too.

I think it all depends on the talents of the writer. If I know my character is doomed from the beginning, I have absolutely zero problems with their death in the end of the game. I think that emotionally, it then becomes more of a situation where I'm going to get the most out of the game I can, because I already realize that somewhere down the line, my character will die, and I accept it.

That being said, a main character's death being thrown in as some sort of edgy "twist" to make their game more dark and edgy is something I absolutely HATE with a passion, if it's not done properly.

tl;dr: If you're not willing to put the time in to craft a well told story and make that "bad" ending make sense, don't fucking do it.

I think it can but it's not ideal and frankly if that happens I usually just watch a let's play or cheat my through. :P

Yes...
SPOILERS!!!

If done right. ME3 was apparently cheap as shit (did no play it yet) which is what pissed people off.
Fallout 3 ending was just nonsense. People pointed out why it was bad already, two npcs which are immune to radiation, you having antirad buffs and powerarmour. and all you have to do is press a button. they could rig a machine and it would have done the job safely.

Then we have games like Mafia 1. The ending is where you are betrayed by your friends, go to jail and then get killed like a dog in your own backyard. One of the best ending for game ever. Depressing but satisfactory.
Another ending I saw (not played) was for Red Dead Redemption. Can't get much worse than that unless you go either into bloody torture or have some major genocide.
Another bad ending is Half Life. You sortof won. all your colleagues are dead, god knows wtf is happening on earth (HL2 showed us that nothing good) and you just found out that you have been manipulated all that time and now have to do the bidding of your new employer or face certain death.


Then there are bad endings like Fahrenheit or Kotor2. Incomplete, broken, rushed. that's different story tough.

Usually the problem is more bad writing than anything. You can't just say "and he died unhappily ever after" at the end of a story that was about overcoming adversity, so you shouldn't expect that to fly in a game either! You have to lead into it, you have to allude and foreshadow and weave that into your game so the final sacrifice fits with the overall tone. Most games have a theme of success and triumph, which is reinforced through the game mechanics. When the game suddenly pull a reversal at the last moment to deliver a tragic ending, the thematic tone has flipped upside down in a way that's jarring, unexpected, and unsatisfying.

Fallout 3 is a perfect example of this. Whatever you might say about the rest of the game, the main storyline had woefully bad writing. As a result, it was the game mechanics that drove its tone: mechanics that revolved around being the most awesome character in the world and solving any problem by virtue of being the most skilled, cunning, and powerful individual around. That tone does not fit with a forced self-sacrifice sequence, and to add insult to injury said sequence is heavily contrived.

So yes, I believe it can be done. The problem is that it has to be done well.

I repeat what I have always said: if it's a roleplaying game and/or I'm playing a generic character, there has to be at least one good ending. If I'm playing a highly predefined character, I'm okay with no good endings, but I want to have some measure of respect for my character when all is said and done. I haven't played The Last of Us, but the ending on Wikipedia doesn't qualify.

Funny no one has mention 'Happy Endings'!

Yeah baby!

(a little bit of walking dead spoiler, altho not really.)
Yep, pretty much that. Walking Dead is a fantastic example of an amazingly done bad ending.

It's sort of maddening how many unfinished game stories there are because the developers went kaput before they could make the sequel or expansion pack.

Right now I can think of Anachronox and [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_(series)]Alternate Reality[/url].

I didn't find that last part all that satisfactory.

I'm working on it.
</spoiler>

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.