It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
StingingVelvet: Massive fuck up. Tim Schafer fails at studio management. I wonder what the guy behind Gemini Rue would say to 3 million dollars not being enough for half an adventure game.
Not to defend them or anything but you cannot really compare an Indy dev working with a very small team to a professional development studio with developers/artist/etc.. you actually have to pay every month. (And if they use well known actors as voice actor they can easily destroy most of their budget before actually typing a single line of code)

3 millions looks like a huge sum but it's actually a small budget, a better comparison would be with Deadelic but as far as I know we don't know the budget of their games.
avatar
Crosmando: Did I do something to offend you? It's just information.
avatar
TheJoe: No you just did a horrible thing by posting a statement which, at the top of the original statement, says "for backers-only". The reason those updates are private is because they contain information only for backers. Otherwise they wouldn't be backers-only.

You might as well just give us all the documentary.
This stuff is all over the internet. Are you really that naive? Or do you just enjoy being a cantakerous prick?
avatar
misfire200: So kickstarter was in feb/mar 2012...originally planned on a july 2012 release...get 8x what they asked for...move release to july 2013....but oops...we now think it would take till 2015 if we do not go to steam for early access...

What a major screwup...Even if you subtract 800k from the top for fees and physical items...they are averaging over 100k a month...and just did some horrible planning...ridiculous.

Hmmm...but also lets start another kickstarter knowing our project is way...way..behind schedule....yeah...makes even more sense.
That's what pushes this over the edge from just incredibly bad planning to bordering on one huge con job.

They already can't fund the one game they were given a massive amount of money to make so, wait......let's ask for more but not tell anyone we're already running out of money. Slimy to the max, IMO, and really too bad as I always liked Double Fine games.
Post edited July 03, 2013 by Bloodygoodgames
avatar
Bloodygoodgames: There are just too many financially inept fools running development companies, and Schafer is just another one.

Personally, I think Kickstarter will eventually collapse under projects like this that, because of the idiots running them who can't deliver on what they promised.

I'm still waiting for the first Kickstarter I helped fund deliver what it promised. It's now almost 10 months behind schedule, has produced a multi-player battle thingy I never wanted and wouldn't have funded, yet the single-player game doesn't seem to be much closer to completion.

Fools. Fools. Fools. And so many indie developers wonder why they get their asses kicked by mega international developers that CAN follow a budget.
What is the first kickstarter project you backed up if I dare ask ???
avatar
jamyskis: *Sigh*

See people, this is why you wait until the game is developed and THEN you buy the game. Or you at least invest formally, with set deadlines and binding requirements.

What Tim has done here - THIS is basically what Kickstarter is. "Give me your money and I'll finish the game at my leisure or maybe never at all."
Yep, and another reason why I never pre-order games either.

This kind of garbage happens all the time, with pre-orders for games being put up 9 MONTHS or more before the game releases, only for people who pre-ordered it to find out later it's months behind budget or, when it is released, it's a piece of crap.

When I see a developer putting up a pre-order for a game half a year or longer before a game is due to release, I immediately know they're likely having financial problems and attempting to fund completion of the game. And no, I would never pre-order, no matter how much I wanted to play the game.

When will gamers learn? It's like so many of them get their rocks off on wasting their hard-earned money.
avatar
Bloodygoodgames: There are just too many financially inept fools running development companies, and Schafer is just another one.

Personally, I think Kickstarter will eventually collapse under projects like this that, because of the idiots running them who can't deliver on what they promised.

I'm still waiting for the first Kickstarter I helped fund deliver what it promised. It's now almost 10 months behind schedule, has produced a multi-player battle thingy I never wanted and wouldn't have funded, yet the single-player game doesn't seem to be much closer to completion.

Fools. Fools. Fools. And so many indie developers wonder why they get their asses kicked by mega international developers that CAN follow a budget.
avatar
N0x0ss: What is the first kickstarter project you backed up if I dare ask ???
Sorry - I didn't mention it because I couldn't remember the name it's been that long since I backed it :)

The Banner Saga - it was supposed to be released in September, 2013 and then November, 2013. Still waiting )

There is a multi-player bashfest thing they spent boatloads of time creating, but that I have no interest in playing, but still no sign of the single-player game most of the backers funded. They're now saying late 2013, but I'm not holding my breath.
Post edited July 03, 2013 by Bloodygoodgames
I'm fine with it. It was the first huge Kickstarter, and they didn't expect that much success. They went from a small adventure game to much bigger.

I'm sure they will deliver, and I have absolutely no problem with Early Access.

It's hard to be the first, and that will teach them (and other folks) a lot. It's good it's DF, someone else could say "sorry, moneys over".
avatar
BadDecissions: Double Fine has existed for over a decade now; Tim Schafer has been working in the industry for over two decades. And yet somehow, it appears that nobody involved in the project knew how much it costs to make a game. I mean, I understand that they weren't expecting as much money as they got, but surely at some point after they knew how much money they had to work with but before they started development, they looked at what they wanted to do and asked themselves how much a game of that scope would cost?

I have nothing against either Double Fine or the people who backed this game, so I hope the Steam thing they're planning to do works out for them. But this is some startling incompetence from industry veterans.
They might be veteran game developers, but I doubt that they had that much experience handling budgets by themselves. After all, if you go from someone that used to rely on publishers to fund the game for a lot of time to someone that has to rely on his own, well, you just don't have the experience.
I really don't care about the delay as long as the game will be awesome. Psychonauts was also delayed a lot, but it turned out great and I am hoping this will be as well.
avatar
Crosmando: AND they conveniently waited 5 days after their other Kickstarter (Massive Chalice) ended to go public with this.
I wonder why :p. Well, I hope they deliver a great product.
Eventually I'll judge them based on how well their games turn out to be (particularly Massive Chalice since that's the one I'm interested in :) )
I am a backer of this project and I also felt taken aback when I read it. Basically the designer of the project (Tim?) acted extremely unprofessional and risked the success of the whole project. What a shame. Obviously they have zero managerial skills.

Anyway, they won't get more money from me. Their task was to deliver a polished, nice little game in time, just the right thing for their budget, but they failed and now we may have a big, unfinished monster by somewhere in the future. I value this far less.

A good lesson how you can fuck up and why developers on their own aren't much better off than with publishers. And a good lesson that KS isn't that far away from a pre-order than thought. Because it's not the backers who make the wrong decision, it's always somewhere on the other side and it does not matter so much if they call themselves publisher or developer.
avatar
spindown: People have been saying for a while that eventually one of the big, multi-million Kickstarter projects would fail spectacularly and possibly end the whole Kickstarter craze. I didn't think it would be the first one though, the big one that started it all. I really hope they will find a way out of this mess.
Failing is part of the economy. Everybody fails sometimes. But I hope that KS gets a more realistic treatment in the future. For small projects it's ideal. For larger projects backers should demand much more professionalism and securities. Or maybe just more insight or maybe that the design is already finished and the costs are clear. I will continue invest in small projects (<200k $) but I will hesitate in taking part in anything bigger.
Post edited July 03, 2013 by Trilarion
avatar
Gersen: Not to defend them or anything but you cannot really compare an Indy dev working with a very small team to a professional development studio with developers/artist/etc.. you actually have to pay every month. (And if they use well known actors as voice actor they can easily destroy most of their budget before actually typing a single line of code)
It was pitched as a $300,000 small little Wadjet Eye style game. If their company bulk prevented them from actually doing that, maybe they shouldn't have said they could?
avatar
Gersen: Not to defend them or anything but you cannot really compare an Indy dev working with a very small team to a professional development studio with developers/artist/etc.. you actually have to pay every month. (And if they use well known actors as voice actor they can easily destroy most of their budget before actually typing a single line of code)
avatar
StingingVelvet: It was pitched as a $300,000 small little Wadjet Eye style game. If their company bulk prevented them from actually doing that, maybe they shouldn't have said they could?
You're rarely disingenuous, though almost always cranky, so pardon me while I get some negative rep.

They've not been shy pointing out that scope creep is the biggest part of this failure. Have you ever done project management with a changing scope? There's a reason people who can modify project features or size and stay within budget and time deadlines get paid well. It's not trivial. There's no reason to believe that their corporate bulk, as you say it, would have prevented them from making a $300k game. There's rather a lot of evidence that their enlarged corporate bulk is preventing them from making a multimillion dollar game. Stay focused. There's plenty to talk about without getting your foundation wrong.
low rated
Reading the update after waking up was a bummer. I invested my money with low expectations in the first place, so it's not really shocking. I have eyes, so I can see differences at Wasteland 2 and Broken Age productions and how it reflects the management's effectiveness.

On the other hand, I have saved a lot of money by buying games with Steam DRM for handful of bucks and a small part of it invested in Kickstarter projects. It won't be a real loss if DF fails to deliver. I have appreciated them being upfront about financial difficulties but keeping this update from backers til their other project is funded is, well, not a welcomed practice. I'll wait and see.

And OP, despite the information being common knowledge now, I don't like backers-only leaks, the full copy-paste update in this case, so here goes your -1.
All i can say is ouch.

With the recent Legends of Dawn cock up (backers getting the game after steam users get to buy it and then finding more bugs than a bug farm) it makes me want to rethink giving money to backing projects. Hopefully these are blips in the kickstarter games but still.
I think the biggest problem is that Double Fine are too big, look at any of their videos and you'll see heaps of people, and I think there's even more employees we haven't seen. At a time when the economy is so tight (especially in game development) and most companies are purposely keeping their number of pay-roll employees low, Double Fine seem to me to basically be a huge indie welfare racket, bloated and paying too high wages to employees.

Hell the first thing DF should have done after the Kickstarter is force all employees to take a huge pay-cut under a contract guarantee that if Broken Age is produced quickly and is a good game, they will get a bonus from first sales to make up for pay cuts. Not to mention they should be downsizing their office and getting as many non-core team members to work from home to keep costs down.

Schafer probably doesn't have the guts (or the brains) to fire anyone though.

What they really should of done, is bite the bullet and downsize the entire studio to a core team of 20~ people, with 3.2+ million that would give them at least 18 months dev time, enough to make an adventure game.