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ovoon: L4d2 and MW2 should NOT be up there.
l4d2 makes l4d1 seem like an embarassment.
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ovoon: L4d2 and MW2 should NOT be up there.
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Weclock: l4d2 makes l4d1 seem like an embarassment.

True, its much better... but its still a shame that it was even released
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ovoon: l4d2 makes l4d1 seem like an embarassment.
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Weclock: True, its much better... but its still a shame that it was even released

Well, we probably won't see another so soon. I believe the lead dev for the L4D series (think she also led Portal too) left Valve. I read an interview once where she was pleased her group wasn't on Valve time. So maybe L4D3 will come out in 7 years or so, like a regular Valve game.
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Cambrey: Torchlight is developed by Runic games and published by Perfect World Entertainment (which is an international publisher that has nothing to do with the indie scene).

There are many indie games that get published by other companies, either worldwide or in different territories. Audiosurf was published by Ascaron, World of Goo was published by Mastertronic, Zeno Clash was published by Iceberg, et.c. As long as Runic are publishing the game themselves, and owns the rights, it doesn't matter that they have also licensed it to other companies. And as far as I understand, the Perfect World-deal is mainly about Torchlight-the-MMO, anyway.
Also, sales numbers have nothing with "indie"-ness. Audiosurf sold tons, World of Goo sold tons, Trials 2 sold more than 100k on the PC, they're still indie games. It just means they're also highly successful indie games.
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Zeewolf: There are many indie games that get published by other companies

Which is, by definition, impossible for an indie game. As soon as you share the rights with a publisher (whether it's a local or international publisher does not matter), your game is not independent anymore. An independent artist distributes his own artwork, that is why most of the time he cannot sell tons of it.
And Perfectworld is publishing Torchlight, the game we know, not the mmo that hasn't come out yet. That would be different if Runic was publishing its game via their own publisher, but that's not the case.
Maybe I'm making my own definition of indie games and maybe I'm wrong, but to me, none of the games you listed is an indie.
Post edited December 08, 2009 by Cambrey
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Cambrey: Maybe I'm making my own definition of indie games and maybe I'm wrong, but to me, none of the games you listed is an indie.
I don't care who you are, but if you want retail copies of a game that's outside your actual region to exist, you HAVE to get a publisher in that region.
oO..?
Well... yeah.
I totally agree and there is nothing wrong with that.
I can't believe Dawn of War 2 made the list.
Didn't really enjoy it as much as the first DOW.
Empire made the list? That's appalling.
Post edited December 09, 2009 by Syme
Is it just me or is that list really out of touch with the gaming community?
Heres the top 5 games based upon average review score's for '09' (www.gamerankings.com)
PS3 Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Naughty Dog/SCEA, 2009 96.03%
72 Reviews
PS3 Fallout 3: Game of the Year Edition
Bethesda Softworks, 2009 95.40%
5 Reviews
PS3 LittleBigPlanet: Game of the Year Edition
Media Molecule/SCEA, 2009 94.57%
7 Reviews
X360 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Infinity Ward/Activision, 2009 93.59%
70 Reviews
X360 Street Fighter IV
Capcom, 2009 93.28%
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ovoon: L4d2 and MW2 should NOT be up there.
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Weclock: l4d2 makes l4d1 seem like an embarassment.

oh please.
the whiners spend more time on lfd 1 than on other games. Mirror's edge anyone?
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Weclock: l4d2 makes l4d1 seem like an embarassment.
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lukaszthegreat: oh please.
the whiners spend more time on lfd 1 than on other games. Mirror's edge anyone?
I actually have not played l4d1 that much.
for example, I have never been the tank in vs.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Weclock/stats/L4D?tab=stats&subtab=versus
and I've played a total of 3 games on vs.
now compare that to my l4d2 stats
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Weclock/stats/L4D2?tab=stats&subtab=versus
ok only 7, but that's because Scavenge is so much better
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Weclock/stats/L4D2?tab=stats&subtab=scavenge
where I've played 26 rounds.
So you didn't even play L4D that much yet... apparently enough to know L4D2 'embarrasses' it? L4D2 is certainly an improvement upon the original but I'd hardly dismiss the original so tritely. Never mind the fact they could have just phased said improvements such as the new special infected, game modes, etc. into L4D as DLC. Let's just say I was glad the game was released only a couple of weeks before Black Friday because there was no way in hell I would pay more than the $30 I shelled out.
Not even a mention of Borderlands? Okay, it wasn't perfect. But they really nailed the core gameplay, I felt.
Empire was disappointing. Not least of all because the damn battles crashed. I don't like the idea of playing a game for hours which I can't save when the bugger can just crash at any moment. It also wasn't as intuitive as the Rome & Medieval II games.
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Zeewolf: I would definitely classify Torchlight as an indie game.

It's from a smaller developer. But it's still not technically indie. Even if it has a certain indie quality to it (gameplay over graphics).
Post edited December 11, 2009 by Navagon
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Metro09: So you didn't even play L4D that much yet... apparently enough to know L4D2 'embarrasses' it? L4D2 is certainly an improvement upon the original but I'd hardly dismiss the original so tritely. Never mind the fact they could have just phased said improvements such as the new special infected, game modes, etc. into L4D as DLC. Let's just say I was glad the game was released only a couple of weeks before Black Friday because there was no way in hell I would pay more than the $30 I shelled out.

I agree. It is really fun but L4D1 is not irelevant. The maps are still fun to play and the atomsphere and survivors are still pretty good and different to L4D2 is every way.