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Sweetz: ...but it's also probably the most consumer friendly form of DRM available.
That may be true for people in the US/UK/AU/EU, etc., but I can tell you right now, it has some of the most annoying restrictive features (which are often used here) that makes some "Steamworks" games a fucking nightmare to use.

Seriously, restricting the ability to install/activate a game based on IP regardless of where and how you purchase a game does not make a "consumer friendly" DRM. My most recent encounter with that crap was with Mafia 2. A game that I had no end of difficulties in purchasing and using simply because it's using Steam's DRM system.
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Sweetz: ...but it's also probably the most consumer friendly form of DRM available.
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bansama: That may be true for people in the US/UK/AU/EU, etc., but I can tell you right now, it has some of the most annoying restrictive features (which are often used here) that makes some "Steamworks" games a fucking nightmare to use.

Seriously, restricting the ability to install/activate a game based on IP regardless of where and how you purchase a game does not make a "consumer friendly" DRM. My most recent encounter with that crap was with Mafia 2. A game that I had no end of difficulties in purchasing and using simply because it's using Steam's DRM system.
An excellent point. Regional restrictions of any kind make little sense to me. As an American, I've only experienced it occasionally with some things from the UK.
Of course it is DRM, that is a fact, not an opinion.

Is it intrusive DRM? That depends on the person... for me it is because I don't care about community features and other bullshit, so it's not only an activation and an account, it's also an annoying client and forced patching you can't roll back.

I prefer SecuROM and similar things... quick simple activations that don't mess with how the game runs and works, and easy to get rid of with an exe swap if the company never does.
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Sweetz: ...but it's also probably the most consumer friendly form of DRM available.
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bansama: That may be true for people in the US/UK/AU/EU, etc., but I can tell you right now, it has some of the most annoying restrictive features (which are often used here) that makes some "Steamworks" games a fucking nightmare to use.

Seriously, restricting the ability to install/activate a game based on IP regardless of where and how you purchase a game does not make a "consumer friendly" DRM. My most recent encounter with that crap was with Mafia 2. A game that I had no end of difficulties in purchasing and using simply because it's using Steam's DRM system.
how is impulse, gamersgate, d2d in Japan?
Post edited January 18, 2011 by lukaszthegreat
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lukaszthegreat: how is impulse, gamersgate, d2d in Japan?
D2D has more regional restrictions than purchasable games. They also have an annoying habit of canceling pre-orders when they then decide to restrict a game. They also now restrict accounts based on the IP used when the account was created. Thus my D2D account is permanently locked to Japan (so even using a proxy/actually being in another country, won't allow purchasing of games not available here). So, only worth using when they are selling something dirt cheap.

Impulse are like D2D but with added price hikes. Seriously, they want $80 for Fallout 3 GOTY! So again, only worth using when selling something dirt cheap (never tried proxies/gifting cross regions with them and I'm not sure I can be arsed to, as their entire opinion of international customers is questionable at best).

GamersGate has less regional restrictions than even Steam. Very fair pricing and have no issues with cross region gifting (and proxies work wonders for buying games not available here). Only downside is lack of major publisher presence (such as 2K/Activision) and so far very limited support for Steamworks titles. If they at least sold those, most of my problems with Steam in terms of Steamwork titles (except perhaps having to use a VPN to install/activate) would be solved.

GamersGate could also do with adding a few servers for this region as recent experience has indicated some severe problems in that respect (like being unable to access their site for over 48 hours this past weekend). But they assure me they are now investigating this and looking for a solution (as it's the third time in as many weeks that it's happened).

There are also potential payment issues depending on what might happen to PayPal in the future (Japan really hates services like PayPal and has imposed heavy restrictions, so much so that PayPal for Japan is provided from Singapore and has most features disabled). And as we can't use MoneyBookers (no credit card company will support it due to connections with gambling) if we lose the use of PayPal, GamersGate will no longer be usable since they removed PayNova.

So overall, GamersGate is our best option but the use of that service is fully dependent on what happens to PayPal. Which sucks.
A lot of people recommend GamersGate, but I've come away unimpressed. I tried to buy a game from them over the holidays, but for some reason they simply could not process my order (I've bought one other game from them, so I know how it works). I ended up buying from D2D instead (whom I've never had trouble with). A shame, since GG had the cheapest price for the game, and their pricing usually seems pretty good.

The game I bought from them before also had all sorts of compatibility issues-I've bought many old games from Steam, and they've all worked without problems.
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Adokat: A lot of people recommend GamersGate, but I've come away unimpressed. I tried to buy a game from them over the holidays, but for some reason they simply could not process my order (I've bought one other game from them, so I know how it works). I ended up buying from D2D instead (whom I've never had trouble with). A shame, since GG had the cheapest price for the game, and their pricing usually seems pretty good.

The game I bought from them before also had all sorts of compatibility issues-I've bought many old games from Steam, and they've all worked without problems.
Steam versions of games often include and FORCE all the necessary exrtra installers specifically for the game [DirectX, VC+, and anything else you can think of], has the newest patch, and doesn't normally contain the same DRM measures other versions have (b/c you get the Steam DRM instead.

Many other DRM's can cause problems w/ certain systems b/c the DRM isn't supported on certain Windows OS's. For example - Win 7 doesn't really get along w/ older versions of StarForce. I don't recall a Steam game ever ALSO using StarForce.

That pretty much can solve most of the problems, as is.
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StingingVelvet: This is true, I know Assassin's Creed works this way. I'm pretty sure it's rare though.
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mateo360: I haven't gone through my entire steam library but I think all the old games that use dosbox it works with.
Steam versions of Divinity 2: DKS Demo and Borderlands: GOTY work w/out Steam, if you do the .EXE trick.
Post edited July 25, 2011 by MysterD
I have only bought from GOG so far because I like the idea of being able to download and play whenever and where ever I want without restriction, reinstalling how ever many times I want, etc. I did see Steam before I found GOG, and went with GOG for the No-DRM aspect.

Having said that, I still see lots of games out there that are cheap (or cheaply available) like The Indie Gala. I noticed that they say that all games are via a steam key.

For most Steam games, how "online" do you have to be? Obviously you have to be online to download the purchase, but to play the game, do you only have to be in the internet to start the game? Or do you have to be online the whole time you play the game? Is it a small online amount of internet throughput (like just a few kb of dialog in the app)?

What is the "offline" mode that some have mentioned? Is that most games? Or just a few games? How does that work? Authenticate once, then you can play the game for years on-end without being connected to the internet?

I like what I have gotten from GOG, just wondering what my risks would be to add Steam games like the Indie Gala pack and other titles going through Steam...
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crodgers: For most Steam games, how "online" do you have to be?
Depends of the games, for most you only need to be online to download and activate them (which is done transparently) and after you can play in offline mode.

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crodgers: Authenticate once, then you can play the game for years on-end without being connected to the internet?
Not for years, the offline mode is rather "capricious", some peoples can remain offline for a long time while for others that have to go online from time to time, also the offline mode is dependent of your hardware (like most others DRM), change your hardware and you will need to go online.
Post edited January 01, 2012 by Gersen
I've had my entire Steam catalog of many games locked on me because of a problem with the payment of one item. Their excuse was that they were protecting me from potential fraud, even though I explained exactly what the problem was...

It took them well over a week to resolve the issue to their own satisfaction, during which time my entire account was suspended, not just the game that hadn't been paid for (due to my card used to pay PayPal expiring... oops).

The best part is, they only banned my account when I told them about the problem with the payment.

By contrast, I had the same problem at the same time with a game from GOG. They simply removed the game from my account, and I bought it again with new card details. Solved in under an hour.
Well, that does not sound like a pleasant experience!

I suppose I might add some titles from Steam, just knowing that I might need to be online and they might all go away if Steam or Valve goes under. So, I might not invest a whole lot in their games... maybe a little. Unfortunately, that is what would press me to pay the minimum for something like the Indie Gala bundle - just enough to get the games and bonus. With the past few humble bundles, I have paid more, knowing I would get to keep the games....

Hey - with Steam, can I load 1 game onto 4 pcs and have all 4 of us in the house playing at the same time? Or at least two of us playing at the same time? I am not talking about multiplayer games like WoW, just the single person games like Your Doodles Are Bugged, or Zombie Shooters.

Or does Steam's DRM ensure that you are not playing on more than 1 pc at a time?
Post edited January 01, 2012 by crodgers
Just on a side note, there are quite some games that you can play by simply starting the game *.exe file inside the Steam folder. Thereby cirumventing the Steam client altogether without any cracks.

Afaik there is no list of those anywhere on the net, but you can always try the ones you have or ask here.
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crodgers: With the past few humble bundles, I have paid more, knowing I would get to keep the games....
The Humble Bundle's primary offer is DRM-free (downloaded directly from the humble bundle site), with Steam keys as an additional option that you may use if you choose to. Other indie bundles have differed however, and in some cases only offers Steam keys with no DRM-free option (I don't remember the names of those bundles, but it may very well be Indie Gala, or Indie Royale, or something else altogether).
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crodgers: Or does Steam's DRM ensure that you are not playing on more than 1 pc at a time?
You cannot be logged in to the same Steam account from two computers at the same time. Your friend thus needs to have the game on his account for you both to play the game simultaneously. Unless the game can be launched without Steam running as mentioned by others (or possibly with Steam being in offline mode, but that's just guesswork on my part).
Post edited January 01, 2012 by Miaghstir
anyone else notice that in the general forum it shows the creater of this topic Eyeball (who is now sirprimalform) wonder why it doesnt retrospectivly alter the forum....
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reaver894: anyone else notice that in the general forum it shows the creater of this topic Eyeball (who is now sirprimalform) wonder why it doesnt retrospectivly alter the forum....
I bet the "thread starter" and "post last edited by" fields are stored as strings (the user name at the time) rather than as an ID referring to the corresponding row in the users table (the "post creator" field seems to be such an ID though).