Okay, I found the winner. I got Alan Wake on Steam->GOG->HB (for OST).

Otherwise I usually grab HB for fresh games which I wouldn't probably otherwise buy unles existing conditions. Like Double Fine's small games which are ridiculously priced everywhere, very short Limbo or Steam-only TWD.

Too Human, Bought it 3 times (Played/traded, eventually kept), then bought a copy for my son.

This is not a game problem, this is a platform problem. Retaining the hardware meant for the game means you can still play the game. Retaining your vision means you can still read the book. So claiming you can't play a game because your OS is too modern doesn't mean anything about the gaming industry.
Not to mention the fact that a physical copy of the game can be used by you as you like, even making it a cake (though I'd advise against eating it).

You are mixing things again. GG is an example of an account authentication that allows reselling. You remember, it was the part I said that made you howl with laughter. A physical disk copy, like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas or UFO: Trilogy can be resold without caring for the existence of the original store.

Yes. Much like Test Drive 2 which came with 5 cars and 4 routes, then the first expansion added 5 more cars, the second added 4 more routes and the third added 4 more routes. How dare they use modern day nickel and diming back in 1989. Original game cost 25 pounds and each expansion cost 15, so a grand total of 70 pounds for a game. Daylight robbery I tell you.

Read the thread again. Many people did it when a more complete version came out, whether that was Baldur's Gate: The Original Saga (2000), Ultima I-VI series (1992), The Complete Ultima VII (1994), Ultima Collection (1997), The Wizardry Trilogy: Scenarios I, II & III (1987) or any other compilation/collection from 198x till today. But no, people didn't use to rebuy their games, that is only happening in the 201x...

Finally, in post 65 you "scold me" for blocking you, when you actually meant that a post of yours didn't go through (though it did). I don't have the ability to block posts in the forum. Noone has the ability to block posts in the forum, though the blues can delete posts and can also revoke posting privileges. It is also polite to edit/clarify posts that are erroneous, if only just to show that you do fix any mistakes.

Well I apologise for accusing you of blocking me if you didn't, though I find it strange that the post took so long to appear. As for editing posts, I never go back to alter the general meaning of a post, I only ever edit it to correct spelling or grammatical mistakes. I sometimes go back to read replies to my posts, however, and notice that they seem to have been altered ....

Re-releasing games as compilations / Gold editions etc. is also a bit iffy in my opinion, regardless of how long it's been going on for. This is just an earlier, more timid form of what has now become normal practice : selling the same game over and over again. It's just damn cheeky tbh.

So Test Drive 2 was released piecemeal back in '89 was it ? I never played the game so I didn't notice, but it really doesn't matter when this practice began, it only matters that it came into existence at all. And in any case it is far more widespread now than it was back in '89. The industry HAS become more greedy whatever you say. In fact I don't understand why you are so staunchly defending the industry - do you work in it ?

I simply don't understand what you are saying about Gamersgate. What is "an account authentication that allows reselling" ? I refer you back to what I said about my paperback copy of The Silmarillion : I can't even remember now which shop I bought it from, but the point is that it NO LONGER MATTERS. I do not have to go through the shop in any way, shape or form if I want to sell my book : our transaction is COMPLETE and our relationship is now OVER, unless I choose to go back to the shop and do some more business with them. I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Again, why are you so intent on defending the industry : are you just another gamer or do you work in the industry ?

The platform issue.. So let's fast forward another twenty years and let's say that I still want to play all my old games as well as my new ones : how many PCs would I have to own ? My house would collapse under the weight !

There is changing of a post and adding to a post. By editing I usually mean what you've already done to post 65, eg. "Edit: Hm, it seems that blah blah". Feel free to ignore it though, it's not as if I blocked you or anything.


Would you prefer movie examples? Music examples? Book examples? Hell, take a look at the first printed book, and see how many different versions there are. But no, it's the "Games Industry" that does it, not whoever sells something.


Let me make an assumption. You said that you started pc gaming in 1998, and I guess before that you were a console player? Consoles (due to lack of a hard drive) didn't really have expansions. They couldn't properly support those unless they remade the game from scratch and selling it as a new and improved version. And I don't think the industry has become more greedy. We don't get as many clones as we used to get, since it's much easier to identify clones, and the nickel and diming may have become less. Let's take your favorite example, Europa Universalis 3
Europa Universalis 3 Complete costs €14.99
Europa Universalis 3 Divine Wind costs €9.99
Europa Universalis 3 Heir to the Throne costs €9.99

So the expansions cost 66% of the base game, same as it did back in 1989.

Let's see a greedy corporation now then, Activision's Call of Duty
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 costs €59.99
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 - Uprising costs €14.49
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 - Revolution costs €14.49
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 - Nuketown Zombie Maps costs €4.99

So the big expansions cost 25% of the base game, and a map pack costs ~8% of the base game. There are also a shitload of cosmetic DLCs, but they are not needed, unless of course you also needed to collect all the mugs and lunchboxes of Sonic, Mario, TNMT or other favorite game/show. So even if you say that Game + all DLC costs double the base price, it is still cheaper than what it costed to get TD2 and all DLCs (sorry, expansions) or Ultima 7 and all DLCs/expansions.

So, am I defending the gaming industry? Yes. Same way as I'll defend anyone that is wrongfully accused.
And I don't work in the gaming industry, but I do take advantage of it.

I refer to you (again) about physical game disks (which do behave exactly like your copy of Silmarillion) and the other method of account bound games. Physical copies can be resold with no hassle. Account bound games may be resold, depending on the specific account. GG allows reselling the games, Blizzard doesn't. Steam may allow you to, GOG doesn't (yet). XBox One would allow you to resell them, PS4 may allow (it does for physical copies, no idea about acount based ones). So the gaming industry does and doesn't care about you reselling the games. Some methods allow you to, some don't. Why do you attack all of it?

1) machine running Windows 98 on compatible hardware. That also takes care of your DOS games.
2) machine running Windows 7 on compatible hardware. That should also care of your XP games.
2a) machine running Windows XP if you want to be doubly sure that they work.
3) machine running Windows 2 versions after 8. That should take care of games published between now and 2023.
4) machine running Windows released in 2023 or so. That should take care of the rest of the games.

Use a KVM and you only need 1 Keyboard/Monitor/Mouse. Is 5 machines too much?

So, allow me to ask you this. What is the "Gaming Industry" that you so despise? What part of the gaming community isn't part of the "Gaming Industry", and why? You hate DRM with passion, and I accept and understand that. But you also hate "Gaming Industry" for things that have been happening for a very very long time and not only in the games industry, yet you keep saying "Modern trend", "Gaming Industry", "Old times were better" and so on. Why all the attack?

Numerous copies of Syndicate. SNES version. DOS version. Numerous GOG copies. One for myself and others for a giveaway.

Civ IV - four times

First time was on disk, after both expansions were released.
Second time was on Impulse as the complete version with Colonization.
Third time was DRM free complete version on Amazon (it was on sale for $4.99 and I had a $5 promo code, so technically I didn't have to buy it).
Fourth time was a Steam key for the complete version that was part of a bundle bought on Amazon. I traded this copy.

So technically I only bought it twice, but I do have 3 licenses. Several games I own two copies of due to buying a copy here on GOG that I already have the disc for.

Yeah I bought the first 3 HHGTG books about 3 times each now, same for Heinlein's Past Through Tomorrow.

Foundation Trilogy... hm, I think I'm only on my second copy - though it's hardcover and I'm babying it.

Morrowind i have bought it 4 times over the years just when you get fed up with it and leave it for a bit it started to grow on you again.

That list of Europa Universalis 3 releases is about as "complete" as EU3 "Complete" itself ! Check the Wikipedia entry. They released EU3 Complete ("complete" ha ha, it only contains two of the expansions. It's a grossly misleading title) and also EU3 Chronicles, which contains everything EU3Complete did plus two more expansions. They released each expansion pack (I think there is now a total of five ?) separately and then included two of them in EU3 Complete and four of them in EU3 Chronicles. I've no idea how you get hold of the fifth expansion - probably it's DLC. But why oh why the protracted, staggered release ? It couldn't have anything to do with money could it ? They ought to use some of that money to pay someone to write decent manuals for their extremely complex games because they've cut costs there too.

I just don't like the direction the games industry has taken since it began. Not only are customers now being milked for all the cash they've got but games very often don't work or are extremely hard to get to work "out of the box" (cue everyone starts passing the buck when this happens. It's always the customer who has to carry the can in the end though, ) are sometimes released in alpha or beta condition, are released in multiple instalments and then later in complete editions (which are not always complete), are being made with the masses in mind and are therefore often "dumbed down", no longer come with paper manuals, etc. etc.

I bought my first PC in 1998, I couldn't afford one until then. Before this I had owned only a PS1 and a Sega Megadrive. Before that I owned a Dragon 32 home computer, which is when I really caught the bug. So much has changed since 1998 and I don't like a lot of these changes. DRM is the single worst change that had occurred since I began gaming though. I resent being forced to effectively rent a game and I don't buy any of the contorted arguments which attempt to justify DRM. It has evolved into something far more aggressive than an anti-piracy measure. This is why I prefer to buy digitally from GOG if I can help it.

I've got nothing against anyone with five PCs but yes I think it is too many machines to HAVE to own in order to be able to play all your games, old and new. And it's five machines and counting because computer technology ain't going to stand still.

Eight times. One for me and seven I've given away in this forum and to my friends.

DRM is actually the only change since the beginning of computing. From the TI-99/4 until now, almost everything you are complaining about was already there. The only change is the DRM. Do a list, and it has happened before.

So please, again, drop the "modern trend" thing, unless you can back it up.


For EU3 "Fifth expansion", I assume you mean the spritepacks? See the point on Black Ops Cosmetic DLCs.

And as for "Why didn't they make it all at once", it's the very same reason sequels exist. People liked the first part and asked for more. Be that a second Star Wars (you do know that "Episode 4" was added to the title later, right?), a new "Back to the Future", a new album by "The Who" or the second part of the Iliad, telling us what happened to one of the "heroes" after the first work. People don't make a second part if the first wasn't well received, but they do make a complete experience at the time of publishing.

Is "A New Hope" less complete if you don't see the other films? Is it less complete if you don't read the books? What about the animation? At what point is "A New Hope" complete? Because I personally find it complete from the first time the credits rolled.

It's not quite the same though is it ? I mean The Who did not release their albums song by song, they released the whole album at once. And as far as I know they didn't later add any expansion packs.

Damnit JMich, I know you like to argue but this one isn't nearly as entertaining as the usual "debates".

He likes to quibble, not argue. He'd make a damn fine barrister. Just dubious analogy after dubious analogy ...