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Wishbone: Here's a video and a picture that's relevant to this discussion.
I've not seen the video before. Got a chuckle from that one, thanks. The pic I've seen before and at the time I was amused but thought to myself it was a little bit over the top. But after experiencing almost exactly every step in that on more than one occasion, I can see that it's pretty much spot-on.
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Coelocanth: This drives me right up the wall. Honestly, is there anyone on the planet that has the capability of buying or playing a DVD/Blu-ray that doesn't know it's illegal to pirate the content? FFS, why do they have to make those stupid F***ING sections unskippable? I'm an honest guy and I pay for my entertainment, but this actually almost makes me want to pirate. Really effective strategy on their part... *eyeroll*
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Wishbone: Here's a video and a picture that's relevant to this discussion.

http://youtu.be/qPEeaxI0OPU
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Pheace: It's a big reason why GOG needs to step into online/multiplayer despite it skirting the DRM line. Given long enough, there simply won't be games to add to to GOG anymore without those.
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Wishbone: Yes there will. There may not be Ubisoft games to add, but there'll be games. If there is a market for it (and there is), someone will make it.
Ehh, most of the classic games currently on GOG had some form or other of DRM when they launched. Part of the process of making the games suitable for sale on GOG is stripping that DRM off again. There's no reason this can't be achieved for the current crop of games - even the bloody Ubisoft ones. I expect there are versions available through pirate websites that already have this feature.
Post edited June 20, 2014 by BreathingMeat
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BreathingMeat: Ehh, most of the classic games currently on GOG had some form or other of DRM when they launched. Part of the process of making the games suitable for sale on GOG is stripping that DRM off again. There's no reason this can't be achieved for the current crop of games - even the bloody Ubisoft ones. I expect there are versions available through pirate websites that already have this feature.
The point wasn't DRM, it was games in which online multiplayer is a requirement. Pheace was arguing that pure single player games are a dying breed. I was arguing that they are not.
Ubisoft sure is setting up a nice bed to crap in.
All this tomfoolery surrounding Ubisoft has just reaffirmed my faith in GOG. GOG must not take the launch of Linux support and Galaxy lightly. With companies like Ubisoft around, GOG doing the right thing means so incredibly much.
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stg83: Like many folks have already mentioned this headline is extremely misleading which actually translates to, "The DRM we have right now is ineffective against all the PC pirates (most publishers are still extremely naive in assuming that console games aren't pirated as much as PC games) so what we need is totally unnecessary, forced and annoying mulitplayer features in a single player campaign i.e. fool our customers into thinking that it would be really fun to do something that could easily be experienced alone with friends and make its sound like a cool new feature."

Case in point starting from the recent Watch Dogs, hack into other players games for no reason whatsoever to get some XP points. Play the upcoming Assassin's Creed Unity's side missions with three other friends so its like a mob hit instead of an assassination. Call on a friend to help you out or get in your way in Far Cry 4 where the whole purpose is actually being alone left to your own devices in the huge open world to take on an army of a psychotic dictator. This new trend of useless multiplayer options in a single player campaign is a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud before all games eventually end up becoming Titanfall where the so called story is just an excuse for multiplayer shooter death matches. If it weren't for their initiative with UbiArt games then I would totally avoid purchasing all Ubisoft games instead of just the ones with forced online features.
See, I don't know...I'm completely okay with them wasting their time on these supposedly experience enhancing online features, as long as they aren't integral to accessing content outside of themselves. That is to say, having accomplishments in side-online-feature thing can be connected to achievements and trophies, supposing those aren't necessary for something in single-player, because who cares, you know? 100% achievements/trophies != 100% game completion, or at least it never should be that way to me.

However, whenever they're interwoven with finishing skill trees, getting to max level, another mission or area, or anything that is more or less core single-player content, then I'm slightly bugged. Like in Watch Dogs, there's entire parts of the UI dedicated to the online components, which isn't bad in itself, but I'd rather only see that when I'm trying the online components. Part of the radial menu and a short skill line are thrown in with the single-player like I'm not supposed to mind, but I do, because it makes me think outside of the game about other people and the company behind the game, which I'd kind of like to tune out as I'm playing, unless I want my experience to intersect with others or anything else.

The only times I'm okay with this [UI intrusion], is when it's done gracefully, like in the Souls games or Transistor. I don't mind seeing occasional ghosts of other players, that's cool and not that intrusive, and I'm even somewhat okay with making yourself vulnerable or available to other players by being online, but I'd much prefer it loosely coating the experience instead of tightly and coarsely coating it in an ugly and uncomfortable way.
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stg83: Like many folks have already mentioned this headline is extremely misleading which actually translates to, "The DRM we have right now is ineffective against all the PC pirates (most publishers are still extremely naive in assuming that console games aren't pirated as much as PC games) so what we need is totally unnecessary, forced and annoying mulitplayer features in a single player campaign i.e. fool our customers into thinking that it would be really fun to do something that could easily be experienced alone with friends and make its sound like a cool new feature."

Case in point starting from the recent Watch Dogs, hack into other players games for no reason whatsoever to get some XP points. Play the upcoming Assassin's Creed Unity's side missions with three other friends so its like a mob hit instead of an assassination. Call on a friend to help you out or get in your way in Far Cry 4 where the whole purpose is actually being alone left to your own devices in the huge open world to take on an army of a psychotic dictator. This new trend of useless multiplayer options in a single player campaign is a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud before all games eventually end up becoming Titanfall where the so called story is just an excuse for multiplayer shooter death matches. If it weren't for their initiative with UbiArt games then I would totally avoid purchasing all Ubisoft games instead of just the ones with forced online features.
Not to mention that supposedly one might still get hacked in Watch Dogs even when they are supposedly offline...

Very well said sir, my feelings exactly.
just, just wow...
I'm kinda insulted they think we're that stupid. Now i'm glad I hated Far Cry 3.


....no i'm not... dammit.
Allow me to play the Devil's Advocate here.

Early said that implementing DRM doesn't make sense, because most (if not all) DRM can and will be broken. So what they want to do is to add extra content to their game to make it more appealing to paying customers. Sure, the game can still be pirated, but non-paying customers won't have access to the extras, be they big boxes and color manuals, soundtracks and "making of" videos, or multiplayer/online features.
So their plan of action is similar to what CD Projekt did back int he 90s to 00s, and what GOG did for the digital distribution. The implementation remains to be seen though.

The "good" way of implementing it would be similar to NWN. Single player that you can enjoy however you like, but to go in a persistent world, you need a cd-key/account. The may also do it the Dark Souls way, which (imho) is better than NWN.
Yet everyone (almost) in this thread assumes that it will be a Doomsday scenario. It's "AC2 is always online", not "AC2 has a one time activation".
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wolfsrain: And he dropped the ball further...

"To fight piracy, Early explained that Ubisoft needs to not only focus on making better, more compelling games, but also ensure that these games have more online services (which are not available to pirates) baked into them."

And that's exactly what i do not want to see in my games, either.
Thats where I facepalmed when reading this news. Its like UBISoft: "DRM Can't Stop Piracy... lets try even MOAR DRM!!"

Unless of course he meant optional not required for gaming online services :P
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wolfsrain: And he dropped the ball further...

"To fight piracy, Early explained that Ubisoft needs to not only focus on making better, more compelling games, but also ensure that these games have more online services (which are not available to pirates) baked into them."

And that's exactly what i do not want to see in my games, either.
"Oh, piracy can't beat DRM? Well then we'll turn all our games into MMOs"
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JMich: The "good" way of implementing it would be similar to NWN. Single player that you can enjoy however you like, but to go in a persistent world, you need a cd-key/account. The may also do it the Dark Souls way, which (imho) is better than NWN.
Yet everyone (almost) in this thread assumes that it will be a Doomsday scenario. It's "AC2 is always online", not "AC2 has a one time activation".
What do you mean by persistent world?
Also, how does it work with Dark Souls?
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BreathingMeat: Ehh, most of the classic games currently on GOG had some form or other of DRM when they launched. Part of the process of making the games suitable for sale on GOG is stripping that DRM off again. There's no reason this can't be achieved for the current crop of games - even the bloody Ubisoft ones. I expect there are versions available through pirate websites that already have this feature.
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Wishbone: The point wasn't DRM, it was games in which online multiplayer is a requirement. Pheace was arguing that pure single player games are a dying breed. I was arguing that they are not.
OK I've slept now and my brain is working better. Good point.

The fortunate thing for me about games which require online multiplayer is that I hate them. They may have started out as good games, but when that shit is shoehorned in the games immediately become broken and annoying and not fun.

I'm not sure who Ubisoft thinks its audience is. Maybe I'm too old to see the appeal of including a stranger in my fun who is likely either :
1. An incompetent booby whose stupidity I'll have to manage, or
2. A tiresome arrogant child who's going to spend his calling me a nigger-cock-sucking-fag-cunt-shit or something equally unenlightening.

Admittedly I haven't tried very hard, but I have never ever met a stranger in an online game whom I have liked. Seriously, what are the strike rates? I like strangers when we're chatting reasonably on a forum like this, but in-game people are much more aggressive and tiresome. I know my personality isn't improved when I'm playing, and that's why I like to do it alone.

So if Ubisoft are going to make multiplayer games that require people to be connected to their ghastly uPlay then let them. I'd say I wish them well with it, but I don't. I still want them to go bankrupt and sell the licence for Might and Magic to someone else. If their policy is to ram crappy compulsory multiplayer into their bloated joyless games, then anything they do isn't going to affect or involve me, and I won't mind that we won't be seeing them on GOG.
I can't stand DRM, I'm hoping with sites like GOG it proves that DRM free is the way to go.

Especially when they launch their (long, long, long overdue) DRM free client to rival the steam client. I always buy on GOG where I can to support their DRM free philosophy (one of the only companies that do).

I'd really like to see all ISPs block and put a stop to illegal torrent sites. We all know they're there and I would suspect that 99.9% of the files on there are illegal (I might be wrong, but I doubt it).

I really hope that they don't beleive that making everything MMO (ugh!) or building in loads of DLC is the way to go.
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JMich: Allow me to play the Devil's Advocate here.

Early said that implementing DRM doesn't make sense, because most (if not all) DRM can and will be broken. So what they want to do is to add extra content to their game to make it more appealing to paying customers. Sure, the game can still be pirated, but non-paying customers won't have access to the extras, be they big boxes and color manuals, soundtracks and "making of" videos, or multiplayer/online features.
So their plan of action is similar to what CD Projekt did back int he 90s to 00s, and what GOG did for the digital distribution. The implementation remains to be seen though.

The "good" way of implementing it would be similar to NWN. Single player that you can enjoy however you like, but to go in a persistent world, you need a cd-key/account. The may also do it the Dark Souls way, which (imho) is better than NWN.
Yet everyone (almost) in this thread assumes that it will be a Doomsday scenario. It's "AC2 is always online", not "AC2 has a one time activation".
But we've seen the way that Ubisoft implement this. We've seen uPlay and "unlockable" content and compulsory multiplayer missions. This Chris Early character isn't saying anything new; he's trying to sell us the same old shit by wrapping it in language he thinks we like. This old leopard doesn't change his spots, he's just trying to tell us that a spotted leopard is good for antelopes. It's insulting.

The day Ubisoft pull a CD-Projekt and say "Shit, we are so sorry we dicked you around with that DRM crap. Here let us make it up to you. Here are DRM-free uPlay-free versions of the games you bought" is the day I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Until then, I've been burned too many times to give them an inch of charity.