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Ozimandeus: I want to maximise what I spend on European goods and services, and lessen/eradicate goods and services from Russia and the USA. Why is irrelevant. I would venture that I do exactly the same in every bit of shopping I do in the supermarket. I will chose a supermarket that offers local produce over any other. Why? because that is what I choose to do.
Russia *IS* in fact part of Europe. Yes, I'm well aware that Russia is transcontinental where most of the landmass is in Asia. It's also true that the bulk of Russia's population is in Europe. This means that a game from Russia should have the "Made in Europe" tag because the country is in fact part of Europe, like it or not.
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Timboli: And I certainly wouldn't describe it as being about their point of view.
It is about the impact on them, which is very different to a POV.
Impact, POV, it's all the same semantics.

It's not up to consumers to care about vendors. It's their job to do the work, assess the market, release goods and services, and make a profit.

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Timboli: And is GOG not doing that?
I wonder how the majority of customers feel about this? Do they even care?

If the majority of GOG customers want these country labels, then so be it. But I seriously suspect they don't, and so I am not one that believes in pandering to a minority, not without good reason, a reason beyond politics and bias.
GOG is not doing a good enough job, although I admit they have different audiences to juggle.

And I don't know, only they would know. But if they keep having annual 'made in X country' sales every year, then maybe it's successful enough for them to keep doing it and it wouldn't be an insignificant minority. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise, right? Hence that's why I support the idea of the label.
Post edited 2 days ago by UnashamedWeeb
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Timboli: No just discriminating based on where they live ... same same really.
Not true, for example I will not boycot Night Dive Studios since they are against trump.
It's not about where you live and more about what you believe.

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Catventurer: As a consumer, I decide based on a game's content and you should too. Judge by their actions and their releases. Do not be fooled by press release statements.

At the top of my list of companies that everyone should boycott is Number None, and it's not because they are based out of Texas (US.) The Witness was released with puzzles that cannot be solved if you're color-blind and other puzzles that cannot be solved if you are deaf. These ableist puzzles also come late in the game, which means that the most popular storefront (Steam) will never issue a refund as the player would have exceeded the allowed period once they encounter them. When called out on this, the official response was to just skip the ableist puzzles. This is ignoring that to get the real/true ending, you need to do those puzzles.

Ableism is very much a pro-MAGA view point, Even if Number None made a statement claiming to be against Trump himself, it would not change the fact that they share his view point that people with disabilities don't need to be accommodated, even when the accommodation is just to do better and warn people about such content in the future.

On the other hand, IkenFell (2020) and I was a Teenage Exocolonist (2022) both have Canadian developers and American publishers. The American publishers have made their position clear just by publishing these games while being upfront about the LGBT+ content as both are fairly recent releases.
I don't decide just on the country of origin of course. I just use it as one of the many informations I need to decide if I want to buy a game.

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Catventurer: Russia *IS* in fact part of Europe. Yes, I'm well aware that Russia is transcontinental where most of the landmass is in Asia. It's also true that the bulk of Russia's population is in Europe. This means that a game from Russia should have the "Made in Europe" tag because the country is in fact part of Europe, like it or not.
I don't think dictatorship countries qualify as european.
I don't think russia qualify as Europe at all.
Post edited Yesterday by LiefLayer
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LiefLayer: [...]
I don't think russia qualify as Europe at all.
You’ve heard the phrase 'facts don’t care about your feelings,' right?

The continent of Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and follows the Emba River down to the Caspian coast. This means that the western part of Russia is in Europe (see the attached map).

In fact, 40% of Europe’s landmass is Russian territory, and 15% of the European population lives in Russia, making it the largest European country.

Whether you personally accept this or not doesn’t change the fact.
Attachments:
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amok: You’ve heard the phrase 'facts don’t care about your feelings,' right?

The continent of Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and follows the Emba River down to the Caspian coast. This means that the western part of Russia is in Europe (see the attached map).

In fact, 40% of Europe’s landmass is Russian territory, and 15% of the European population lives in Russia, making it the largest European country.

Whether you personally accept this or not doesn’t change the fact.
that's just geography and it's an artificial border made by human.
by that reasoning we could say that there is no europe or asia but just 1 continent.

I'm talking about politics here (also made by human) and when I talk about Europe I'm talking about democracy, principles, not geography.
I would love russia to be part of europe in the future, but only when they act like an european country.

I also think of Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zeland as "european".

But maybe european is just not the correct term since it's used for geography too.
Replace it with whatever you want.
Call it Democracy, call it Freedom, call it Right to be Human.

I think European Union is the closest thing to that Ideal.
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Ozimandeus: I want to maximise what I spend on European goods and services, and lessen/eradicate goods and services from Russia and the USA. Why is irrelevant. I would venture that I do exactly the same in every bit of shopping I do in the supermarket. I will chose a supermarket that offers local produce over any other. Why? because that is what I choose to do.
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Catventurer: Russia *IS* in fact part of Europe. Yes, I'm well aware that Russia is transcontinental where most of the landmass is in Asia. It's also true that the bulk of Russia's population is in Europe. This means that a game from Russia should have the "Made in Europe" tag because the country is in fact part of Europe, like it or not.
For the love of.... <deep sigh>

"Modern Europe" is defined as the EU+UK

UK countries are:
Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z2wjqfr

The EU countries are:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden.

The European Economic Area (EEA)
The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

https://www.gov.uk/eu-eea

I would also add Ukraine to that list, because I believe Europe stands in solidarity with Ukraine.
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amok: You’ve heard the phrase 'facts don’t care about your feelings,' right?

The continent of Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and follows the Emba River down to the Caspian coast. This means that the western part of Russia is in Europe (see the attached map).

In fact, 40% of Europe’s landmass is Russian territory, and 15% of the European population lives in Russia, making it the largest European country.

Whether you personally accept this or not doesn’t change the fact.
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LiefLayer: that's just geography and it's an artificial border made by human.
by that reasoning we could say that there is no europe or asia but just 1 continent.
[...]
No, I stopped reading there because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Continents are most definitely not human-made, they are defined by plate tectonics. In fact, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying. The Earth has seven major and minor plates, which is what gives rise to the seven continents.

You’re talking about arbitrary borders created by humans, but continents are the result of plate tectonics. The reason Asia and Europe are considered separate continents is because they sit on different tectonic plates.

I also think of Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zeland as "european".
I would venture that people in those countries would not entirely agree (understatement).
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Catventurer: Russia *IS* in fact part of Europe. Yes, I'm well aware that Russia is transcontinental where most of the landmass is in Asia. It's also true that the bulk of Russia's population is in Europe. This means that a game from Russia should have the "Made in Europe" tag because the country is in fact part of Europe, like it or not.
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Ozimandeus: For the love of.... <deep sigh>

"Modern Europe" is defined as the EU+UK
[...]
According to the United Nations, there are currently 44 countries in Europe. Here is an easier list based on the United Nations classifications.

https://www.worldometers.info/geography/how-many-countries-in-europe/
Post edited Yesterday by amok
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LiefLayer: [...]
I don't think russia qualify as Europe at all.
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amok: You’ve heard the phrase 'facts don’t care about your feelings,' right?

The continent of Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and follows the Emba River down to the Caspian coast. This means that the western part of Russia is in Europe (see the attached map).

In fact, 40% of Europe’s landmass is Russian territory, and 15% of the European population lives in Russia, making it the largest European country.

Whether you personally accept this or not doesn’t change the fact.
I was going to just ignore you (I'd hate for you to fall foul of the code of conduct), but... please see my post above reference what Modern Europe consists of. Note the sources. 'Made in Europe' would need to be based on political boundaries, not topography. However I have come to the conclusion that the initial ask wouldn't be granular enough. Therefore the ask is a tag for country of origin.
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amok: No, I stopped reading there because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Continents are most definitely not human-made, they are defined by plate tectonics. In fact, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying. The Earth has seven major and minor plates, which is what gives rise to the seven continents.

You’re talking about arbitrary borders created by humans, but continents are the result of plate tectonics. The reason Asia and Europe are considered separate continents is because they sit on different tectonic plates.
Topography doesn't always align with political or cultural boundaries. This is taught in High School level geography classes in the UK. How on Earth you confuse the two is beyond me.

I think you are mischievously being obtuse to cloud the argument, which is for metadata tags for country of origin. For which we have in the UK+EU+EFTA, for everything we can purchase, except for videogames. Even Fintech products which are just software, have a verifiable country of origin.

It's actually highlighting a massive gap - so much so, I'm penning a letter to my MP and MSP in order to highlight this deficit.
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amok: You’ve heard the phrase 'facts don’t care about your feelings,' right?

The continent of Europe ends at the Ural Mountains and follows the Emba River down to the Caspian coast. This means that the western part of Russia is in Europe (see the attached map).

In fact, 40% of Europe’s landmass is Russian territory, and 15% of the European population lives in Russia, making it the largest European country.

Whether you personally accept this or not doesn’t change the fact.
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Ozimandeus: I was going to just ignore you (I'd hate for you to fall foul of the code of conduct), but... please see my post above reference what Modern Europe consists of. Note the sources. 'Made in Europe' would need to be based on political boundaries, not topography. However I have come to the conclusion that the initial ask wouldn't be granular enough. Therefore the ask is a tag for country of origin.
I’d like you to provide a source for your classification of 'modern Europe'.

All official sources define Europe based on tectonic plates. I even tried googling 'Modern Europe', and, unsurprisingly—most results refer to the historical time period. Searching 'countries in modern Europe' returns variations of 'the countries in the EU plus other nations on the European continent.' So, where exactly does your classification come from?

If you can’t provide a source, I’ll simply apply Hitchens’s Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." (Even though I have the United Nations classification of Eurpean Countries)

Right now, you’re just making things up to fit your narrative, which, I’d argue, has no basis in reality apart from your personal "I want it to be this way" feelings.

(PS. googling is now an English verb, it is in the dictionary, it was added to it in 2006. It means to search the internet, it does not specifficly mean to use Google)
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amok: No, I stopped reading there because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Continents are most definitely not human-made, they are defined by plate tectonics. In fact, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying. The Earth has seven major and minor plates, which is what gives rise to the seven continents.

You’re talking about arbitrary borders created by humans, but continents are the result of plate tectonics. The reason Asia and Europe are considered separate continents is because they sit on different tectonic plates.
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Ozimandeus: Topography doesn't always align with political or cultural boundaries. [...]
Plate tectonics is not topography
Post edited Yesterday by amok
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amok: Plate tectonics is not topography
Yup being obtuse once more, back on ignore I think.

Debating what is and what is not defined as Europe or not, is nothing to do with the OG subject. If you want to have that debate, I would recommend heading over to reddit and doing it there. As I said, the subject of this thread, is about metadata for videogames, specifically, country of origin. No doubt you will want to debate on what is and what isn't a country next? again, I refer you to the comments I made above.
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amok: Plate tectonics is not topography
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Ozimandeus: Yup being obtuse once more, back on ignore I think.
[...]
It means you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The continents (Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, and South America) are defined by plate tectonics. (Do I need to explain what that is to you?)

The Eurpean and Asian plates meet at the Ural Mountains, extending south along the Emba River and down to the Caspian coast. Tectonic plates are not the same as topography, which refers to the arrangement of surface features on land. The borders of tectonic plates pass through various types of topography, including mountains, valleys, and rivers and so on.

The closest connection between the two is that tectonic activity creates topography, for example, colliding plates can push up mountains.
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Ozimandeus: [...]
Debating what is and what is not defined as Europe or not, is nothing to do with the OG subject. If you want to have that debate, I would recommend heading over to reddit and doing it there. As I said, the subject of this thread, is about metadata for videogames, specifically, country of origin. No doubt you will want to debate on what is and what isn't a country next? again, I refer you to the comments I made above.
What this means is that your classifications have no basis in reality, they are simply arbitrary standards that are poorly defined and shaped by your personal feelings and politics.

You want a "Made in Europe" tag, but only for the countries you decide are truly European, while excluding others. So, they are European countries, but at the same time, they are not European countries - because you say so?

edit - I’d say that what you’re doing right now is exactly what Trump and company do, ignoring science and the rationale behind our definitions of terms, and instead, just making up your own version of reality to fit your narrative. "Modern Europe" is now an alternative fact, just ignore how Europe is actually defined!
Post edited Yesterday by amok