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Selective leak? Aham, yeah, great...
USA is the biggest financial market in the world and not just a single name from there, alright.
Not saying that the implcated names are innocents, but come on...
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tokisto: Selective leak? Aham, yeah, great...
USA is the biggest financial market in the world and not just a single name from there, alright.
Not saying that the implcated names are innocents, but come on...
This was just part 1 of the leak. The US side of the leak is still to come. Given the scale of the first leak, I would expect the US details to be massive.
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Flaose: Ah, yes. No doubt it is a conspiracy to destabilize the Russian government.
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Well, since people are not sheeple and didn't buy into the "Russia is the greatest threat against Europe" crap ultimately, it was obvious that some half assed toilet paper was needed.

Leave Russia aside, then. Messi openly declares it faux too and even moves aggressively with court action. If one listed inside is by mistake (or agenda) there and hasn't been entangled in illegal case indeed, then what guarantees that the number of mistakes are only down to 1?

Let alone that certain people are left outside of thorough inspection, you are forgetting that...
By that same logic, Britain's PM, Iceland's PM, Ukraine's President and several of the civilians listed have admitted the info in the leak is 100% accurate. What guarantees that the number of accuracies are only those few?
Post edited April 07, 2016 by cogadh
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tokisto: Selective leak? Aham, yeah, great...
USA is the biggest financial market in the world and not just a single name from there, alright.
Not saying that the implcated names are innocents, but come on...
See, everyone? Common sense. Everyone having some can see through such half-assed, constructed scandals.

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cogadh: By that same logic, Britain's PM, Iceland's PM, Ukraine's President and several of the civilians listed have admitted the info in the leak is 100% accurate. What guarantees that the number of accuracies are only those few?
Time will tell. Remind me to apologize, if and when panama papers get fully justified. My offer is still in effect, obviously.
Post edited April 07, 2016 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
More direct confirmation of the accuracy of the papers content. David Cameron admits he profited from off-shore holdings his family had, but divested them before becoming PM:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-britain-idUSKCN0X42KV
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cogadh: More direct confirmation of the accuracy of the papers content. David Cameron admits he profited from off-shore holdings his family had, but divested them before becoming PM:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-britain-idUSKCN0X42KV
But he also correctly points out that he didn't actually avoid any tax. All the tax lawyers and experts, even the very top tax lawyer in the country who's been tasked with sorting out tax avoidance has said this is a complete overreaction. I don't like Cameron, but in this case I kind of see his point.

It's a real risk when getting caught up in this wave that you might consider association with this legal firm as guilt. They had a lot of clients, not all were tax dodging.
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cogadh: More direct confirmation of the accuracy of the papers content. David Cameron admits he profited from off-shore holdings his family had, but divested them before becoming PM:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-tax-britain-idUSKCN0X42KV
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wpegg: But he also correctly points out that he didn't actually avoid any tax. All the tax lawyers and experts, even the very top tax lawyer in the country who's been tasked with sorting out tax avoidance has said this is a complete overreaction. I don't like Cameron, but in this case I kind of see his point.

It's a real risk when getting caught up in this wave that you might consider association with this legal firm as guilt. They had a lot of clients, not all were tax dodging.
Oh, I totally get that. Almost none of what is in the papers is actually illegal, though some of it is very unethical or just plain shitty. The really illegal stuff has been limited to a few shell companies being used for money laundering, arms dealing and drug dealing, but no major public figure has actually been connected to any of those shells.

As far as Cameron is concerned, my only issue with him as that now that his private business is on display, illegal or not, he suddenly cares about privacy. The hypocrisy is laughable.
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cogadh: Oh, I totally get that. Almost none of what is in the papers is actually illegal, though some of it is very unethical or just plain shitty. The really illegal stuff has been limited to a few shell companies being used for money laundering, arms dealing and drug dealing, but no major public figure has actually been connected to any of those shells.

As far as Cameron is concerned, my only issue with him as that now that his private business is on display, illegal or not, he suddenly cares about privacy. The hypocrisy is laughable.
w.r.t Cameratron, I agree they mismanaged the PR, he should have just declared the whole thing, and pointed out it was legal (and moral, it was just an investment fund). However it's being misrepresented very badly by opponents, and to be honest you kind of fueled that fire with your post.
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TStael: Would you find me very poorly cogadh if I suggested that US could help beyond their immediate need? And if hep was on the way, it would be actually principled?

What greatly bothers me is that this sort of news only gets convictions in Germany.
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cogadh: I'm not sure what the US could really do.

I swear, this is one of those times when I want to start a real, honest to god revolution. Tear down the old broken system, throw out all the bums running it, rebuild it better, smarter, simpler. If I had half an idea on how to actually do that, I'd probably be on someone's watchlist. Or in jail.
FIFA investigation was initiated by the US, with that apartment in NY for cats person.

And I was most pleased to read that when the new FIFA boss Infantini was implicated, the FIFA headquarters was raided by Swiss authorities.

Of course, it should always have been thus. How about moving to Iceland? I love them anyway, and even better now.i
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Flaose: Regardless, I feel like the people's anger is completely misdirected. Why is everyone so mad about rich people using perfectly legal methods to pay less tax?
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timppu: This pretty much, which I also mentioned earlier. I think people who wouldn't use an (at least an easy and legal) way to pay less taxes are a rarity, even here in Finland where people are not that actively trying to avoid it.

Sure some people are far more tax-friendly saying that people should pay their taxes, especially people who work in the public sector (their wages come from tax money, after all), but I am pretty sure that even among them, if they found a way to save a lot of money by not paying taxes, they'd use the opportunity.

"No one" willingly pays more taxes than absolutely necessary.
Sipilä, ja vakuutuskuoret? Or Finnish Prime minister, and insurance envelopes?

Please. Just because it's legal does not mean it is fine.

The only way our (Finnish) prime minister Sipilä could more optimise his tax holdings with a bit more moral stand is to become the president of the republic. The presidential fee is tax free. For an tax optimiser, this must be near irresistible... ;-)

Sad I should say this about Finland.
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nightcraw1er.488: I do find this "news" amusing, such a shock, rich people hiding money around the world, who would have thought it eh, shock horror. It seems people nowadays live in a state of media frenzied outrage at everything, who fecking cares, your not going to change anything. Just walk along the high street and see Starbucks and costa who are unable to pay to tax, all the online shops that don't etc.
Well, at noon today (at Sat, today) there is supposed to be a demonstration at Downing Street about Cameron and his off-shore birth-right..

You seem fairly resigned, but Icelanders were not.

Is it very unkind to ask why?
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nightcraw1er.488: I do find this "news" amusing, such a shock, rich people hiding money around the world, who would have thought it eh, shock horror. It seems people nowadays live in a state of media frenzied outrage at everything, who fecking cares, your not going to change anything. Just walk along the high street and see Starbucks and costa who are unable to pay to tax, all the online shops that don't etc.
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TStael: Well, at noon today (at Sat, today) there is supposed to be a demonstration at Downing Street about Cameron and his off-shore birth-right..

You seem fairly resigned, but Icelanders were not.

Is it very unkind to ask why?
Not a demonstration in London, I suppose by tomorrow we will all be living in utopia. The only thing that will change, is for that one day the Saudi's who own London will have to keep their golden Bentleys in the garage whilst outside the outraged unemployed and students complain about the world.

You may think that is cynical, doesn't necessarily make it wrong though. Belgium didn't have a government for months, did anyone notice? No, because it just a thin veneer on the working machine of money, and the old saying "you either have it, or complain" is too true.
*** ONE WEEK LATER ***

Just like I expected, one week later it's already old news because nobody really cares ("common" people don't give a fuck and the "system" is not gonna end up its collaborations for child's play) and beyond that it just feels so much like an US-driven operation to put shame on its world rivals. Classic American shit......

Time to cue in some good old Sepultura....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxuZtnmbqww
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Putin says this is ridiculous and irrelevant. The panama papers, of course, or at least him being (one of) the central figure(s). I know where to put my money and what upon to bet. The balls of steel never disappoint and have always spoken with hard evidence. In wait for more details!
Thing is, US bots in Russia for years post info about how "Putin stole all trillions of dollars Russia got from selling oil".
Then we get panama papers, where "whole 2 billions of dollars" found. In Panama offshore.
I mean, in captured by US in 1990 state.
So, Putin steals money from Russia and gives them to US, and US wants do dislodge him...
Couldn't they find Putin's money earlier? Play big scandal like with FIFA?
Meh. Politics. Pft.
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Putin says this is ridiculous and irrelevant. The panama papers, of course, or at least him being (one of) the central figure(s). I know where to put my money and what upon to bet. The balls of steel never disappoint and have always spoken with hard evidence. In wait for more details!
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Gremlion: Thing is, US bots in Russia for years post info about how "Putin stole all trillions of dollars Russia got from selling oil".
Then we get panama papers, where "whole 2 billions of dollars" found. In Panama offshore.
I mean, in captured by US in 1990 state.
So, Putin steals money from Russia and gives them to US, and US wants do dislodge him...
Couldn't they find Putin's money earlier? Play big scandal like with FIFA?
Meh. Politics. Pft.
Putin isn't even named in the Panama Papers. It evolves all around people he knows, no idea why it is made up like he invented the scheme or his name is in the media as main target at all. Well apart from being a convenient target to be demonized.
Post edited April 12, 2016 by MaGo72
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MaGo72: Well apart from being a convenient target to be demonized.
Yeah, lately all dogs are barking that Putin is evil, it's the new psychosis or something. First, George Sorros, who should be FIRST in those supposed panama papers for shady off-shore companies of ambiguous at best interests and unknown activities, has been spamming locally at least, statements like: "Russia is the greatest threat to Europe, even bigger than the Jihadists"! Rumor goes that part of his companies and activities deal in the "refugee handling" business of late, among other things, as well those mysterious troublemakers ("altruists"), who organize them for assaults (like the one in "macedonia" borders, lately)!

Even NATO suits made open statements like those, like ol' boy Stolt... But everyone knows better than me that it's NATO's main job, to destabilize far-away countries who aren't their own, OWNED, lap-dogs...

I love all the drama, bitching and moaning, but at the same time, it drives me nuts! Can't people accept that some politicians can be powerful and successful, without corruption or shady activities in the picture? Or politicians who care for and provide safety and security, first and foremost, for their OWN PEOPLE, first and foremost?

At least i have something decent to watch while eating popcorn. I love american sitcoms and european drama. Especially when presented from shady renegades (like Sorros) that are the carnival's main attraction, something like the clown-king!
Post edited April 12, 2016 by KiNgBrAdLeY7