That is the question but I believe so too. Syriza won't implement much of what it promises here (even in case it votes for it in parliament because it wants the money) because it goes 180 degrees against their programm and why they were elected. So while the euro will stay for now, nothing will become good. In principle Paul Krugman should rather oppose the solution because it doesn't support the Greek economy. It's just kicking the can down the road a few years (maybe only months).

But maybe, just maybe, I'm totally wrong and the economy of Greece gets wings and takes off. In this case I'll happily admit all my faults and even more. But I'm pessimistic and do not think it will happen.

We will meet again in one year and discuss the same things, only with a higher debt pile and a weaker economy.

No need to be disillusioned because of some stupid book, or the Daily Fail.

It's more disillusioning to think that someone actually believes that stuff - and even were it true that people cheating out benefits can ruin an economy.

I'm very right-wing, but damn boy, we don't even drink that kool-aid.

So .. an agreement but again with no tangible plan for the future... sigh, a never-ending tragedy. Also exactly the terms the Greek people said no to in the referendum

What can possibly go wrong? ;)

If the cases are true it should probably be possible to find other independentpublic sources for it.

It's interesting to investigate if a general culture of cheating (not just these potential single cases) can indeed ruin an economy especially if done over a long time. It certainly promotes mediocracy and personal relations and bloated administration (in short: incompetence) over transparency and efficiency. Also from a certain level on everyone is (kind of) forced to take part because the costs of not taking part are too high.

The question would be if there is a relation between corruption and growth and how big it could be. Probably there is. Then you would need to ask what must be done to break out of this condition. An external shock or a revolution maybe. And how you can make sure, corruption stays small: Transparency, good rules, and a cultural change.

Do we have the cultural change in Greece? I guess yes among the people but I rather guess no amongst the leaders. But we'll see what happens.

Doesn't he now. "It’s as true as ever that imposing harsh austerity without debt relief is a doomed policy no matter how willing the country is to accept suffering." etc. Isn't that the core of the problem ?

Well, that and the unsustainability of the debt, which even though being admited by everyone, is being also conveniently ignored ?

Well, that and the humanitarian toll of any potentially positive outcome aimed for at a creditors-serving murderous pace ?

Well, that and the framing of the victims of this humanitarian crisis as some expendable, "superfluous" population in the Arendt sense (the evil greeks, the unproductive poor, etc) ?

Well, that and the mere fact that a democratic process such as this referendum has been treated exactly as a prison break attempt, complete with punishment and penalty aggravation ?

Well, that and the fact that we are middle in the "merkavielic" europe that was being denounced by Ulrich Beck ?

Well, that and the fact that quite a few masks got fissured in the process, revealing the magnitude of EU's federation-versus-sovereignty issues as it drifts towards some US of E with a Washington set in Berlin ?

Just to add a tiny bit more here. One really has to be careful with insisting on an extremely hard line on the debt issue. History in form of the Versailler Treaties for example hints that letting other some breathing air is also in ones own interest in the end. So I would say that a debt forgiveness is kind of almost sure. However the question is just when and how much?

Now there is one possible rule how you could decide the how much.

Basically the idea is to split the benefits. What it means is that with less debt creditors get back less nominally but more effectively while Greece can keep more for itself too. So this is a win-win for both. Now you need to find the point where both the positive contributions for Greece and for the debtors of Greece equal and then that is the exact relief that makes most sense.

You don't have to do it now but you have to do it within a reasonable time frame, otherwise we just destroyed a whole country.

I would like most if we waited about 2-3 years, see how the reforms and economy in Greece fare and then estimate the debt relief (with a variable portion depending on future development maybe) and do it.

The only catch: It won't work. In 2-3 years debt will be even higher and economy even weaker because Greek government won't be able to reform and stimulus is just too low. Greece will most probably fail and the guilt will be nicely distributed all over Europe. At least this is my impression reading the compromise (http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/07/12-euro-summit-statement-greece/). There is just not enough stimulus in it. This won't work.

Therefore we also do not really need to talk about any debt forgiveness because all of the debt is probably lost anyway. At some point the Greek economy will collapse and Greece will have to default on everything. With or without forgiveness, with this plan likely no money will ever come back.

You would be surprised how worldwide this fraud.
Results of investigations after Sogen Kato case in Japan (Died in 1978, his relatives continued to get benefits till 2010) are mindblowing
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/japanese-living-longer-lonelier/article1746791/
tl&dr 150 thousands of people aged over 100 could've been dead and not reported by relatives still getting their benefits.

So now question. How do you personally explain that it was the plan agreed on ?

- Rational belief in its efficiency ?

- Ideological belief in its efficiency ?

- Not giving a shit about its efficiency because it is secondary to other priorities ?

In principle I like the statement of Mr. Tsipras on his personal homepage (http://www.primeminister.gov.gr/english/2015/07/13/prime-minister-alexis-tsipras-statement-following-the-conclusion-of-the-eurozone-summit/). He is right about the missing amount of stimulus and he has indeed bargained a somewhat better deal for his country (for example the debt restructuring but also the billions of euros). Why he insists that the euro is good for his country is a bit unclear but it's also clear that now that Greece will stay with the euro one should not talk about exiting it anymore. Either exit now or stay in for good but nothing in between.

If only the EU would provide much more stimulus and if only Greece would accomplish all the reforms - this could end well. There is a small bit of hope actually.
I have no explanation. I actually think that there should be no higher priorities than to save the Greek economy as well as our leaders should be smart enough to stand above ideologies and should have enough smart advisors to listen to reason.

They are making a mistake and they make it in full conscience (already for a long time)? I'm puzzled. Most probable might be not giving a shit...

Do you think that this point (the what-exactly-leads-to-such-decisions) is a secondary question, or do you think it is a central issue about the EU ?

Never mind. When (not if) Tsipras fails, there is someone else who can rough things up. No one was expecting anything else, anyway. We will be waiting. At the first sign of new mistakes, at the first fall that comes next, there are others who can say no while MEANING no.

For the time being... Let's enjoy the fairy tale, the wolf shepherd, the gathering of jackals and hyenas and the flawlessly decorated troyan horse.

In the end many things are central.

Balanced budgets, discipline, no more additional debt - that are essential points for the future of the EU and my impression is that most if not all member countries fully agree with this. But this needs to be flanked by anticyclical policy, meaning stimulus in times of crisis financed by even more (yes more) austerity in boom phases. You do not need an everincreasing public debt pile to grow.

The other part is inhomogeneity. Some regions do better than others. You need a balance of solidarity and competition.

The third part is a political democratic union.

The fourth is probably banking regulations.

If you solve all these central issues you get a nicely harmonizing, prospering EU. But maybe solving and agreeing on a solution is just too difficult. I don't think that a working EU is impossible, just that making it might be too painful.

Greece is indeed showing bad influences of all these points but Greece is also exceptional in that it's problems are so much more severe than those of others and they failed themselves on so many points (for example the IMF reported that only 1 out of 12 proposed (in 2012) closed job sectors could be opened effectively).

Greek is kept half-dead/half-alive. I don't understand it and frankly I don't want anymore. I give up.

As a pragmatical way out: If I would live in a comparable country, I would emigrate (to Canada or whereever).

nvm

Oh judging from the past the Greeks will probably not be able to implement much from what is asked of them. All the governments of the past were unable too.

Today I read in a newspaper. Nothing has changed. EU is pretending it wants reforms and Greece is pretending it's doing them. We'll see.

So Greece has to sell it's assets in order to raise some of the funds required to at least secure the loans. However, these assets are not worthless, otherwise there wouldn't be any private investors. Also, I'm guessing that this process can not be reversed.

The huge undertaking of managing this agreement is likely to fall in to the responsibility of the Institute of Growth based in Luxembourg. The Institute of Growth however, just happens to be controlled predominately by Germany.

Whose interest does this serve? The people of Greece? Or perhaps the vultures just waiting to pounce on investment opportunities.

During all these negotiations perhaps the EU should display some transparency and explain why their accounts have not been signed off to the value of €140 billion.