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OldOldGamer: Originally, for paladins, was Wisdom.
Actually, I believe Wisdom didn't have any role for paladins except as a stat requirement for choosing the class (and the Charisma requirement of 17 is far moire demanding, anyway). Yes, Wisdom governed bonus spells for clerics, but it didn't give paladins bonus spells for whatever reason (AD&D 1e/2e was rather inconsistent sometimes).

Personally, I would handle paladins differently from how D&D handles them:
* Paladins would not be an option for a newly created character; I would consider them an advanced class (or what 3.x calls a prestige class)
* I would make them more of a true hybrid; make their fighting abilities a bit worse (but still better than non-fighter-types like clerics), but give them spells early and allow them eventual access to higher level spells.

If playing 3.x, for example, I would replace the core palading with the prestige paladin from Unearthed Arcana, which fits what I want out of the class a bit better.
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OldOldGamer: Originally, for paladins, was Wisdom.
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dtgreene: Actually, I believe Wisdom didn't have any role for paladins except as a stat requirement for choosing the class (and the Charisma requirement of 17 is far moire demanding, anyway). Yes, Wisdom governed bonus spells for clerics, but it didn't give paladins bonus spells for whatever reason (AD&D 1e/2e was rather inconsistent sometimes).

Personally, I would handle paladins differently from how D&D handles them:
* Paladins would not be an option for a newly created character; I would consider them an advanced class (or what 3.x calls a prestige class)
* I would make them more of a true hybrid; make their fighting abilities a bit worse (but still better than non-fighter-types like clerics), but give them spells early and allow them eventual access to higher level spells.

If playing 3.x, for example, I would replace the core palading with the prestige paladin from Unearthed Arcana, which fits what I want out of the class a bit better.
I would just change RPG system.
D&D (5th included) is, basically, crap.
There are worse system out there, sure, but D&D seen the amount of money poured in it, should be at least decent.
i'm playing TOEE with Circle of Eight mod, and today i tried BG. BG is 10 years older almost but the game is so much worse.

in TOEE there is a much better, more detailed charachter build. And it pays to make a charismatic bard with social skills so you can unlock some quests and solve some others. The fact alone that BG doesn't have that makes me not want to play it.
Then there's the issue of sorcerers starting only with 2 (2!!) spells per day. and thre are no lvl 0 spells. I'd like to understand what are the upsides of this game from someonw who's played it a lot. So far I think it's a bad, bad game
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Ligon_Flarius: i'm playing TOEE with Circle of Eight mod, and today i tried BG. BG is 10 years older almost but the game is so much worse.

in TOEE there is a much better, more detailed charachter build. And it pays to make a charismatic bard with social skills so you can unlock some quests and solve some others. The fact alone that BG doesn't have that makes me not want to play it.
Then there's the issue of sorcerers starting only with 2 (2!!) spells per day. and thre are no lvl 0 spells. I'd like to understand what are the upsides of this game from someonw who's played it a lot. So far I think it's a bad, bad game
I also ended up disliking the Baldur's Gate games, but more so due to the real-time-with-pause combat, the fact that low level D&D combat is not fun (which hurts BG1), and the fact that BG2 often interrupts what you're doing with timed quests. There's also the weapon proficiency system, which serves to limit the player's options rather than expand them.

Anyway, one could look at older D&D based CRPGs. For example, the Dark Sun games, while based off 2e just like Baldur's Gate, are (mostly) turn based; furthermore, there's enough wrinkles to keep them fresh. For instance,you have Half-Giants and Thri-kreen as races, Gladiator and Psionicists as classes, and you actually see the only CRPG implementation of 2e psionics that I'm aware of. There's also the fact that all casters are like Sorcerers (but with no limit on spells known), and other quirks like healing spells working at range. Also, no weapon proficiencies to worry about, and you start at level 3 (or 2 for multi-class).

By the way, has anyone here played Dark Sun Online: Crimson Sands?

There's also, of course, the Gold Box games (note that these games implement sexist limits on female strength), Eye of the Beholder, the Ravenloft games, and of course Dungeon Hack (the one AD&D based game that I've played the most, as it turns out).
necro
Post edited February 11, 2020 by timppu
I tried to love Icewind Dale, but the difficulty is way too high for me. In the Enhanced Edition, there is a "Story Mode", but this makes the game too easy.
So I have the choice between too hard to win even the first battles or too easy to have fun.
Meh....
If you're a control freak you'll prefer the turn based combat of ToEE where only the dice rolls are left to chance, while things can get pretty chaotic and unpredictable in the BG games.
And if you're an D&D purist you'll prefer ToEE.

If you "play games for the story" you'll prefer the BG games.
Post edited February 11, 2020 by PetrusOctavianus