If they get killed, or lose both legs while at service, they got what it was coming to them, no cares on my part about that. They should have read more carefully the join-the-army brochure they got at the mall before enlisting. The fact that they JOINED and WENT to the war theatre means they are AGREEING with the profitable adventures of business of war and killing uncle same likes to engage on. They arent heroes. They are just business tools. But the focus should be on the big picture, on crap policies and fearmongering that gives cowboys like the former usa president the leeway to pursue his war adventures.

Can we keep on topic please? I've been reading some very well thought out and intelligent comments on this subject that are challenging my own views on the matter and I've enjoyed reading people's contributions so far, let's not start flaming or U.S bashing, please!

I often wonder what makes people become a soldier. I fear it's not about noble causes most of the time - the army seems to mostly attract a certain type of person which isn't really the kind you'd ideally want in an army anyway. In the US, this seems to be the redneck republican gun loving racist type. Well, I guess the US military likes them like that :S but it doesn't really improve the image of the army, does it?

I am Polish. I came to sydney to steal their jobs and women. :)
No. It shows that there is still a lot of work. You don't stop building bridge in the middle right? if you do it will collapse or won't work as a bridge at all.
Hey. Don't tell me about occupation. Soviet freed us from bad guy with a stache and they stayed for fifty years. it was a blast.
Yeah. Shit happens. That's why i have problems with the video mate.
No mate. I am talking about oil fields being burnt. Millions of oil going in flames. At once. Huge clouds of toxic smoke traveling thousands of miles damaging parts of iraq and other countries irreversibly.
That's why i am telling you to hit the books. Learn how stuff works before making a judgment.
Yes. I agree. Military should be gone. If every country did that the world would be perfect. It isn't and it won't be in a very long time so getting rid of military is a way to welcome friendly people from other countries. Costa Rica is protected by Nato. that's why they could get rid of their military.
Now really. What would happen to Iraq if USA pulled out this month (and other countries)?
Everything will be pretty and dangy. New democratic government not usaass sucking like previous will be elected. Bombing the marketplace at noon on Saturdays will stop?
You can't be serious. If you are, then I don't know whether i should pity you for such views or envy your naivety.
I will give you few ideas:
April: Full Pull out
May 1st: No single nato soldier on iraqi grounds
May 2: New Islamic leader calls nation to go back to islamic roots
May 3: Pro-Hussein religious bombings of government buildings
May 4: More bombings and full scale assaults on banks and government buildings.
May 5: Kurds want their own country. Violent democratic discussions
May 6: New politcal parties form everywhere. More bombings.
May 7: Military leader sides with one of the new parties. Using USA as enemy they gain popularity.
May 8: Government collapsing.... Not sure how strong they are. They might either declare martial laws or disband
May 9: Chaos: Oil wells on fire. As they are used by capitalistic pigs to rob the country.
May 10: Huge poisonous clouds hit Israel. Jews are pissed. Makes america pissed.
May 11: Baghdad on fire. Without government or with martial laws in place fighting will go to streets. Instead of political arguments, bombs and bullets are used to solve problems.
...
24th December 2012: NUCLEAR WAR!
:)
Okay. with the last one i went little overboard just for fun (you know? 2012 is the apocalypse)
Imagine the iraq is a tower. With central column supporting everything. With walls you can remove the column and the tower can grow by itself. But if you remove the column before the walls are completed it will wobble and collapse.
That's why the pull out is slow and painful. Step at a time. Letting Iraqis getting used to life without hussein.
Oh.
The current occupation is legal. United Nations supports it, Iraqi officially elected government also and is supported by population although not liked.
and stop being such a usa hater. make your arguments reasonable.

Out of curiosity, where do you get your information? Just because those are the types of soldiers you see in youtube videos?

Not talking about the war mate. But about sanctioning the presence of the troops on iraqi soil now. two different things although similar.

I was vague. I didn't mean that the people in the helicopter were under immediate threat from the RPG, just that each person with an RPG is a potential threat to the soldiers in the future. Every RPG unaccounted for can pop up anywhere and do large amounts of damage.

My mistake then, I just assumed. Sorry! Seeing so many comments justifying the actions through trying to argue that the pilots fired out of self preservation, which clearly isn't the case.
Also, lukaszthegreat I love how you've cottoned on to one Aussie stereotype with your use of 'mate', reminds me of a Russian bird I know who does the same over here in Blighty, except I imagine her accent is far, far sexier than yours, sorry!! :P

I blame the folks ordering the troops around, not the troops themselves. The point of war (and by extension the troops in said war) is to kill people and break things. That is what an army is trained to do.
If the power that be intend to use the military as peacekeepers, they do so at their own peril. This is not their intended purpose, this is not what they trained for. When under stress soldiers will fall back to their training, which is intended. However, as stated, their training is to kill people and break things.
I get tired of people putting US troops at risk in a job they are not trained to do, then getting all upset when something like this happens. U.S. soldiers are the best in the world, bar none; they have the best training (yes, British SAS and Australian special forces are well trained as well, but I am talking about general enlisted) and the best equipment (this could be better, obviously, but it is still the best). The fact that they have been occupying 2 countries for the better part of a decade and have had so few problems is a testament to their restraint.

I use it only on the internet and sms. :) Normally i just use 'man' (especially since i am extremely bad with names)
Currently I have horrible accent. A mix between German and Russian. :)

I haven't read the whole thread (TL;DR), so this may already have been brought up, but this whole "video game-like behavior" thing has a me bit confused. Shouldn't it be the other way around? As in, video games are replicating military-like behavior? I am not a military person, but from my conversations with other military people, the general consensus seems to be that while the events were tragic, the soldiers themselves were acting in the detached manner that soldiers are supposed to act. Its pretty much the only way to deal with the horrific things they might be called upon to do. The only thing that was really wrong was the intelligence they were provided, which seems to be par for the course in Iraq.

I'm confused by this comment, which troops are you refering to not being adequately trained for the situation?
I hope you realize that other nations armed forces have aided the United States in its adventure in the Middle East over the last decade also? And, no, the United States does not have the soley 'best trained' troops in the world, no disrespect but that is an outrageous claim to be making. (And don't think I'm trying to imply that U.S forces aren't well trained, because I'm not.)
lukaszthegreat, no! My illusion of a Pole happily strolling about in the Canberra sun yelling 'g'day mate!' at passers by has been shattered :(

....What the hell are you talking about? Are we having the same conversation?

Was gonna Thank DRM for letting me know there is a fire outside my hooch.... But then when I looked outside THERE WAS NO FIRE!.... then ... when I turned on my TV and was watching Iraqi based TV! I didnt see US puppets! .... Damn DRM... perhaps you could do more fact finding before posting that a WHOLE FUCKING COUNTRY is on fire... (oh and the USAID called we want to stop GIVING PERU AID (yep thats right folks... the United STates evil in their ways gives aid to countries... it is a sinister plot... oh snap BUSH! Gave Peru 2 BILLION! omgwow!!)
Now.... back to the topic at hand.....
(sorry..... People talking shit about things they know nothing about offends me)
Intel failures happen, all the time, and there really is not much we can do about it, funding is being cut for those types of programs.... hell we are cutting Nasa out, we outsource Intel jobs, we outsource surveillance, problems do happen no denying it.
But most soldiers HAVE to be detached to deal with it the soldiers who can not detach themselves go crazy and shoot people alla Fob Ceder, Sykes, Liberty, Marez, Q West, Thunder, Bucca, Abu Grab, Chomper,
Hell im sure I have a bit of PTSD as well amongst other things, how I deal with it... is different. Sigh....2200..... need to get ready for a funeral tomorrow... sigh...