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LordCinnamon: Can someone who knows legalese explain to me how the forced bundling with steam compares to the case with microsoft and internet explorer? To me they seem very similar (though on a smaller scale), but if they were, I suppose the other digital distribution platforms would actually be trying to undertake some legal action.

Key difference: Microsoft is a recognized monopoly, Steam isn't (it actually doesn't even have enough market share to be considered to have market dominance). Being a monopoly is not illegal. Bundling products to gain market share is not illegal. Having a monopoly and using bundling within that monopoly to gain further market share- that's illegal.
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LordCinnamon: Can someone who knows legalese explain to me how the forced bundling with steam compares to the case with microsoft and internet explorer? To me they seem very similar (though on a smaller scale), but if they were, I suppose the other digital distribution platforms would actually be trying to undertake some legal action.
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DarrkPhoenix: Key difference: Microsoft is a recognized monopoly, Steam isn't (it actually doesn't even have enough market share to be considered to have market dominance). Being a monopoly is not illegal. Bundling products to gain market share is not illegal. Having a monopoly and using bundling within that monopoly to gain further market share- that's illegal.

ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
Its really funny. I use Steam, D2D and GamersGate. But only for their deals. So i just care about witch of this is cheapest. But if someone is using D2D, Impulse or GG just not to use Steam they got problem. And how it would look like for the seller.
They would have say in sys. req. that game requires steam account. And why they would want to be blame for problems with game running on steam, steam connection problems. What if ur steam account got banned? who be to blame then?
They probably could earn some money selling the game, maby quite lot of it. How would lok like teh support for this game. "Dear D2D/Impulse/GG how do i use Steam??, Why steam blocked my account and i cant play game i bought from u?"
I'm glad D2D, Impulse and GamersGate have taken this position. I've been confused in the past about titles in the D2D catalogue and almost bought Empire: Total War thinking it didn't incorporate Steamworks. Luckily I realised my mistake and didn't purchase it or other games like Fear 2 which use it too.
Personally, I can perfectly understand why D2D et al are announcing it now. MW2 has been the most talked about PC title this year. They're getting publicity and us talking about it in a way smaller Steamworks titles (like Zeno Clash) wouldn't. MW2's talking points are already that it has no dedicated servers, it has a limit of 18 players per game, and now it's the game online retailers are refusing to stock. Gift. Horse. Mouth.
high rated
Instead of criticizing them for only now refusing to do it, we should be celebrating that they're refusing to stock this travesty of a PC game.
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Weclock: Instead of criticizing them for only now refusing to do it, we should be celebrating that they're refusing to stock this travesty of a PC game.

Well said.
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Weclock: Instead of criticizing them for only now refusing to do it, we should be celebrating that they're refusing to stock this travesty of a PC game.

We can celebrate all we want (and I do think we should), but the sad truth is that the game is probably going to earn a bazillion dollars for Activision regardless, and nothing is going to change. Let's face it, the people who frequent gaming forums and read critical articles, the people who won't blindly throw their money at a publisher regardless of how much they're getting screwed over, only amount to a very small percentage of the gaming population. The vast majority are simply waiting for the next "big thing", and will buy it in happy ignorance of details like what DRM it uses, activation limits, mandatory third party service tie-ins, etc.
I applaud them for this.
The steam-as-DRM/steam-as-retailer link should be severed in my opinion.
For Valve, it makes great business sense, but for everyone else they must look at it as a potential slippery slope to market dominance.
If the other retailers are really serious about this, they may want to remove from sale other games from their catalogues which have steamworks.
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Weclock: Instead of criticizing them for only now refusing to do it, we should be celebrating that they're refusing to stock this travesty of a PC game.

Agreed completely.
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Andy_Panthro: For Valve, it makes great business sense, but for everyone else they must look at it as a potential slippery slope to market dominance.

Given what happened to Microsoft for including IE in Windows, there has to be a lawsuit here.
Post edited November 06, 2009 by Navagon
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Andy_Panthro: For Valve, it makes great business sense, but for everyone else they must look at it as a potential slippery slope to market dominance.
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Navagon: Given what happened to Microsoft for including IE in Windows, there has to be a lawsuit here.

No lawsuit, Steam doesn't have the required amount of market dominance (yet). Something for the future perhaps.
Wait until the next MW comes around; then the average gamer will fully realise the repercussions of Steam when they can't trade in old for the new.
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Lucibel: Wait until the next MW comes around; then the average gamer will fully realise the repercussions of Steam when they can't trade in old for the new.

Just as you can't with GOG or any other digital distribution platform. That's not the problem, so much as the fact that retail copies have the same restrictions without due warning.
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Lucibel: Luckily I realised my mistake and didn't purchase it or other games like Fear 2 which use it too.

For the record, the D2D version of FEAR 2 does not use Steam Works or Steam. It apparently uses a version of SecuROM for its DRM and have to have specific D2D patches -- a clear sign, that it can't be patched over Steam (thus isn't attached to Steam).
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Andy_Panthro: No lawsuit, Steam doesn't have the required amount of market dominance (yet). Something for the future perhaps.

A company doesn't have to have market dominance for such a suit to be viable. They're pushing their marketplace on customers who bought the game through retail. That would be a problem no matter what market share Steam had. That said, they do dominate digital distribution. So it's definitely a problem.
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bansama: For the record, the D2D version of FEAR 2 does not use Steam Works or Steam. It apparently uses a version of SecuROM for its DRM and have to have specific D2D patches -- a clear sign, that it can't be patched over Steam (thus isn't attached to Steam).

D2D and SecuROM or Steam? I'd take Steam, personally.
Post edited November 06, 2009 by Navagon
Remembering how was FEAR 2 multiplayer ill pas on MW2 till it get price about 15 euro.
This is what i payed for boxed FEAR 2, coz i wont pay more for butchered couple hour long Single player game. And as for DLC, reborn still isnt available for purchase in my country, I would pay for single player DLC but for map packs for multi, no way.
Post edited November 06, 2009 by vangordon