Yeah, I agree. The idea of having someone replace in, read the 1200 posts, say "Oh, no, nmillar is a big fat liar!" and getting lynched... Not nice. But so is voting for someone who can't defend himself.

I say we give Orry some more time (weekends tend to be mostly dead anyway), and if we don't hear from him by Tuesday or so, modkill/lynch him. Depends on whether a modkill would end the day, that's a good question (though it could be meta-modded as providing indirect proof of Orry's alignment... bleh).

So I assume we're waiting? For orryyrro to maybe respond and if not for weekend to pass and do as I already suggested or for X to reply in regards of modkill?

I will do whatever the majority of players agree upon the best course of action to be

I could bring one of the dead players back into the fold as orry as a last resort

You know, the more I think about this the more I don't like it. Metagame circumstances (Orry's silence, the hassle of having to find a willing replacement for someone who might be lynched, etc) are kind of pushing everyone toward nmillar's side, and I'm not yet convinced that he's not scum.

But then again, I think that getting rid of Orry would be the best way to get things moving at this point.

So...I dunno....

I hope nothing bad has happened. D;
The only situation I think I wouldn't be able to or wouldn't remember to pop my head in and say something about my absence is if something bad had happened.

I hope for Orry's sake that he's just forgetful or neglectful. :P


As for what to do, it depends on what consequences a modkill would have. Would we get death flavour, name and role? Would the day end?

I prefer not to have a modkill.. if he is scum it would be a rather sad end to one out of I assume 3. And as such it would also tell us less in regards of votes and if it ends the day earn us even less info and risk a kill as well.

If he was modkilled, standard proceedure suggests that he'd flip indirectly, depending on whether we were allowed to continue with the day or not.

Actually I'm afraid I disagree with most of the above, Baron.
- I'm not sure how it being a "sad end" for a mafioso bares any relevence to a town win... Other than it being sad that Orry's gone AWOL. I hope he's ok.

- I'm not too sure either how much we can infer from the votes, since it was a strange little wagon after nmillar's information. (Other than the fact that I'm currently looking sideways at those who'd vote for a totally absent player accused of being scum...)

- You're suggesting that we lynch rather than modkill? In that case that would definitely end the day, and we'd "risk" a nightkill again anyway. It's kind of a moot point that the day will end soon (deadline approaching and all); the point is how best to get out of this situation...

As I see it, there are two relevant questions here:

-If no other replacement can be found, should Orry be replaced by a dead player?
and
-If Orry is to be modkilled, should the modkill end the day?

Let's tackle the first one first.
If no replacement can be found within a short time frame, which by now seems somewhat unlikely, it is a possibility to have a dead player sub in. Personally, I am against this, as having dead players reenter the game always mucks things up. It's problematic for the player, as their earlier statements might no longer jive with their current role, and it's problematic for the rest as they can't take the player's earlier posts into account when trying to divine their alignment.
If, however, a dead player is to be reentered, Itai is really the only possible choice, as he is the only vanilla among the dead. A former non-vanilla player should under no circumstances sub in for another role.

Second question is trickier. On the one hand, letting the lynch end the day takes away the town's main tool for hunting scum, which is obviously not good. On the other, with what is going on in the game right now, it's not unlikely that Orry would be lynched anyhow, so letting the day go on almost gives the town two lynches. I personally would opt for letting the day go on after the modkill, as, while not unlikely, it is by no means certain that Orry would be lynched, and I value the sanctity of the lynch.

I any case, I believe these decisions should be made by the moderator and not be decided by popular vote. Asking for the players' input and opinions is good, so thumbs up for that, but ultimately we shouldn't make the decision.

And this post reeks of scum.

I'm honestly on the side of what's fair for everyone. In this case, I'm not sure how we would be able to justify not lynching Orryyrro to at least know weither Nmillar is telling the truth, but honestly to modkill him, reveal everything and then give the town another lynch, is very unfair (especially if nmillar's right).

As for reviving a dead person...I think it's the same as bringing in someone new. Bringing someone into the position of having to argue away that is pretty bad, and I damn sure know I wouldn't want to do it.

Hmmmmmm, well, question for everyone, under normal conditions of Orryyrro being here, what would end up being the result? Would we have lynched Orryyrro anyway? I'm not sure how to proceed here, I'm not sure what the fair thing to do is.

And note, I don't think posts honestly discussing this should be 'noted' as scummy, it's not fair for someone being fair and honest about what they think, and it pretty much bullies people into voting for the way to 'best benefit the town', when it's supposed to be a game.

It seems likely that Orry might have been lynched, but it's by no means certain. I can imagine certain scenarios where lynching Orry at the least wouldn't be an automatic thing. All posts in a game of mafia can be analyzed to try to uncover the alignment of the poster (which is not to say that all posts give information of any value). It's not possible to take some posts 'out of the game'.
That said, I misread Baron's post, and it's not as scummy as I first thought. I still don't like it, though. And anyways, my problem with it is not the opinion it conveys.

With the imposed deadline on the 31st you have just over a week to decide what you want to do with him.

I WILL sort it myself if no decision has been made by then and the day will end on the 31st regardless of said outcome.

Your misunderstanding, I am saying that I find it sad for the game if the scum were supposed to hunt (assuming that nmillar is truthful) is killed by the mod due to him vanishing and at the same time telling us about nmillar speaking the truth or not, but without the further discussions there could have arisen before a lynch (discussions/votes all that in regards of info). The last part is that I disagree with the day ending due to modkill.

Glad you noticed - though I dunno what you don't like about it..

Agreed, hence my idea about us taking care of the problem. Even if thats also a bit stupid decision and I am mostly for it as I believe he would have been lynched if he was around.

And yes - perfect statement Twilight, saying scummy about a post where I am not talking ingame, but instead about the game is rather odd - what I posted there is what I would have said if I weren't even part of the game, but only observed it (slightly different formulation might have applied in that case though ;) ).

Whoops... Sorry about that and thanks for the clarification. That said, I don't think we should be letting our guards down, especially when, as you say, there may well be very little to go on after this problem is resolved. Doesn't that make it all the more important to pay attention to what posts there are?

Bard, as I understand it from the Wiki, modkill is SUPPOSED to be unfair for the relevent player, and their faction... If he flips scum in consequence of a modkill and town still get a lynch (admittedly with only a few days to pull it off), then that's unfair for scum. If he flips town and we consequently go straight to night, that's unfair for town. We don't know if Violator would play this by the Wiki-letter or not anyway - he hasn't with the lovers.

As for your question... Well, if Orry was here, he'd be defending himself, so it's extremely difficult to predict what the result would end up being...

Except, I wasn't looking for the fairness of killing Orryyrro, I was looking at the town getting Orryyrro modkilled with all of the relevent information, and THEN getting a lynch on top of that, which would be a dick move, even if it's under the 9 day's we have left.

Example scenario: nmillar is lying and he picked Orry as a semilurker who is likely to be lynched without much questioning, but Orry is actually a Town Princess / Cop (or another power role); a claim like that could stop us in our tracks and make us lynch nmillar with his claimed and not particularly clearly defined informative role instead. It's almost certain one of them is getting lynched, but not which one. Possibly both, if we lynch the truthful one first.