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Hehe no problem mate, I'm impossible to offend (Hmm, that gives me an idea for a thread but it might violate the terms of service)
I pretty much agree with you except " I fear that we now have generations raised to believe that homophobes are evil (or stupid)." Had I written that part, it would have been "I look forward to having future generations regard those who don't treat others with basic respect as evil/stupid"
wow... i'm surprised he's anti-homosexuality... particulalry given the views and character of his most famous character: Ender.
Ender struck me as very liberal, and the book were very much about live-and-let-live and acceptance of other cultures.... unexpected.
Shadow Complex is what, about shooting people who support gay marriage for the Westboro Baptist Church? Oh wow, and here I thought it was a generic, though extremely competent, 2D sci-fi shooter a la metroidvania by the GoW people.
I smell controversy created by the marketing dep't. I expect a highly public statement from the dev team dissociating themselves from Card. If they really work their cards right, maybe they can get a senator to come out publicly opposing or supporting Card.
Funny how Advent Rising didn't have any of these kinds of protests. The only thing I remember hearing was "It's kind of like a third person Halo with a generic, though well-executed story. Oh well, I guess marketing learned something about how to jazz up vanilla Orson Scott Card's brand recognition. Beats the million dollar contest I don't remember anyone winning.
Post edited August 22, 2009 by cioran
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cioran: Shadow Complex is what, about shooting people who support gay marriage for the Westboro Baptist Church? Oh wow, and here I thought it was a generic, though extremely competent, 2D sci-fi shooter a la metroidvania by the GoW people.
I smell controversy created by the marketing dep't. I expect a highly public statement from the dev team dissociating themselves from Card. If they really work their cards right, maybe they can get a senator to come out publicly opposing or supporting Card.
Funny how Advent Rising didn't have any of these kinds of protests. The only thing I remember hearing was "It's kind of like a third person Halo with a generic, though well-executed story. Oh well, I guess marketing learned something about how to jazz up vanilla Orson Scott Card's brand recognition. Beats the million dollar contest I don't remember anyone winning.

That's a cynical view to take, but not entirely implausible, of course. I've thought the same thing myself. However, the discussion in the comments section of the Gamasutra article is worth a read - Peter David, who wrote Shadow Complex's dialogue and is pro-gay rights, chips in with a few opinions of his own. It was getting quite heated yesterday, but it was certainly an interesting read.
Thing is, people were talking about Shadow Complex loads already. It was the "big one" out of the Summer of Arcade titles for many people. If it was a marketing ploy, it really wasn't necessary.

That's a cynical view to take, but not entirely implausible, of course. I've thought the same thing myself. However, the discussion in the comments section of the Gamasutra article is worth a read - Peter David, who wrote Shadow Complex's dialogue and is pro-gay rights, chips in with a few opinions of his own. It was getting quite heated yesterday, but it was certainly an interesting read.
Thing is, people were talking about Shadow Complex loads already. It was the "big one" out of the Summer of Arcade titles for many people. If it was a marketing ploy, it really wasn't necessary.

It is cynical but here's why I think this -
a) call it a hunch, but his kind of 2d game doesn't appear to be the type at all popular with <18 demo
b) the chair devs can't be counted on to provide any soundbites or anything that provides decent copy - they named their company after a friggin chair. A CHAIR. Then they go on to talks about the Platonic theory of forms on their website. I'm not kidding, read the "about us" section. Really, Plato. I want to hug the guy that's working PR on this project for having to deal with them. Chair's not exactly Peter "I'm a walking publicity machine" Molyneux.
c) due to the above extremely naive mentality and the fact MS is publishing, it would be relatively simple to pull a very ingenious campaign where you leak Card's involvement in NoM (which is only listed in a 4/23 press release, not on the NoM website proper, so I find it extremely odd anyone "found" it) like this without them knowing at all. The devs inevitable dissociation from C's beliefs would even sound believable and non-contrived because it would be real.
d) Popular xbox live title is good, but a game like this should have legs, and preferably sequels using the same game engine (students of Castlevania for GBA and DS will note that that can work out quite nicely). More is better. Current publicity nets you a popular game. More publicity nets you a popular series of games with minimal additional overhead.
Post edited August 22, 2009 by cioran
I HOPE its not a cynical marketing ploy, the game is good enough to stand on its own merits. i mean its pretty much everything an arcade game should be, a good solid fun romp with good presentation, good controls, decent challenge (one unbelievably frustrating part if you're going for 100% of the items), good length and a fairly good price (I'd prefer 800 points but I don't feel ripped off for 1200)
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cioran: Funny how Advent Rising didn't have any of these kinds of protests. The only thing I remember hearing was "It's kind of like a third person Halo with a generic, though well-executed story.

Didn't it also have really badly executed gameplay? I seem to recall reading that the controls were pretty awful, compared to Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness in the level of bad.
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cioran: b) the chair devs can't be counted on to provide any soundbites or anything that provides decent copy - they named their company after a friggin chair. A CHAIR. Then they go on to talks about the Platonic theory of forms on their website. I'm not kidding, read the "about us" section. Really, Plato. I want to hug the guy that's working PR on this project for having to deal with them. Chair's not exactly Peter "I'm a walking publicity machine" Molyneux.

If they wanted talking heads publicity, they could just as easily let Cliffy B out of the cage. Since Epic own Chair its not unreasonable to expect them to make a few statements about how it's "Blow your bollocks off awesome" or something
Post edited August 22, 2009 by Aliasalpha

Didn't it also have really badly executed gameplay? I seem to recall reading that the controls were pretty awful, compared to Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness in the level of bad.

If you used auto-aim, it wasn't that bad. Not exactly "teh greates game evar" but sufficiently competent as a third person shooter if you like the genre. Aiming was still a little wonky though. On the whole, really not a bad game. Not a strong one by any means, but it was worth a rent, at least at the time it came out. Pretty entertaining shooter, provided you don't expect originality (it really, really resembles Halo in terms of art design). I own a copy. I think I spent about $5 on it.
Needless to say, I'm fairly certain the space aliens weren't LGBT, but I'll have to replay it to check. Perhaps it hid some insidious, undetectable bias.

If they wanted talking heads publicity, they could just as easily let Cliffy B out of the cage. Since Epic own Chair its not unreasonable to expect them to make a few statements about how it's "Blow your bollocks off awesome" or something

He has already - at E3 and in Maxim. I don't think he's played it though, honestly. I think they need someone who designed, or at least played the game to present its feature set.
Post edited August 22, 2009 by cioran
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Aliasalpha: There seems to be a bit of 6 degrees of separation to that argument, chair made a metroidvania game, chair wanted a story and went with political intrigue
My friend Matthew is Australian
However he has german ancestry
His direct german ancestor moved away before ww1
His entire german family did not move (as far as I know)
He may have distant relatives who were in the german army in WW2
Even though he hasn't said anything anti semetic, should I stop being his friend just in case?

Did we just invoke Godwin's Law? Ehh if not, I'll go ahead a complete it (this is said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)
No no no... you shouldn't stop being his friend... you should kill him "just in case" he's a Nazi. Can never be too sure. Maybe he's trying to bring Hitler back to life. I'm not sure what happened to Super Joe so it's up to you!
I heard about this game and followed it somewhat because I'm crazy about (good) metroidvanias, but I only have a PC.
I am really DESPERATE for this game to be released on PC. I'm dying of thirst here, there hasn't been a decent metroidvania on PC or DS (my "other" system ^.^) in a while. Order of Ecclesia was the last.
EDIT: Oh wow, the "Card is involved" nonsense came here too!
Everywhere I go, when I want to talk about this game, this is all that people talk about. Yeah, I think he's politics are crazy too, but this controversy is crazy! Like you guys said, it hardly matters! Card has almost zero personal power to affect his crazy ideas. He's getting hardly any royalties from this. I liked the Ender series, so it's not like his opinions always ruin his own work.
Furthermore, even if products like books or games COULD be "morally tainted", how many degrees of separation does it take to be clean? 2? 5? Card wrote a book with a setting this game is loosely set in, and they asked permission. Big deal.
Name a handful of great developers, and I'll bet you $100 that I'd be able to find at least one homophobe among them. We still play their games.
Post edited August 22, 2009 by Cliftor
No PC release, no me spending money on it...
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Cliftor: I heard about this game and followed it somewhat because I'm crazy about (good) metroidvanias, but I only have a PC.

I'm obscenely fanboy-ish when it comes to Castlevania (I literally own every CV game except a Haunted Castle cabinet), so yeah no-brainer for me, too.
Did you play Eternal Daughter (indie game, pretty passable) and the Wonderboy games? You might like them
Post edited August 22, 2009 by cioran
Just read a bit of the story over wikipedia.
Very similar to a certain FarCry. Now that's recycling. :)
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Cliftor: I heard about this game and followed it somewhat because I'm crazy about (good) metroidvanias, but I only have a PC.
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cioran: I'm obscenely fanboy-ish when it comes to Castlevania (I literally own every CV game except a Haunted Castle cabinet), so yeah no-brainer for me, too.

Then you know about this new Castlevania game, right?
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cioran: I'm obscenely fanboy-ish when it comes to Castlevania (I literally own every CV game except a Haunted Castle cabinet), so yeah no-brainer for me, too.
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JudasIscariot: Then you know about this new Castlevania game, right?

Yep. Suffice it to say I'm enthused. The (IMO underrated) Curse of Darkness finally got 3d Castlevania to the point where it's really good and has that metroidvania feel. I can't wait to see what they do with a substantial push behind the series in 3d. I think they've been marketing CV in 3D halfway since the Castlevania 64 debacle.
Post edited August 22, 2009 by cioran
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JudasIscariot: Then you know about this new Castlevania game, right?
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cioran: Yep. Suffice it to say I'm enthused. The (IMO underrated) Curse of Darkness finally got 3d Castlevania to the point where it's really good. I can't wait to say what they do with a substantial push behind the series in 3d.

Curse of Darkness was horrible, in my opinion. I hated the "unfinished corridor" look of the outside world and the atmosphere in that game was very bland. Lament of Innocence was perfect, on the other hand. It had a Belmont, and the atmosphere was just right for the game. Please bear in mind that I am not attacking your views but I really did not like Curse of Darkness at all.