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Dascryborg: However if you live in the USA and you slander it and say this country fucking sucks then by all means you can move to another country (not saying you said that, just saying in general) as I do not wish to be fighting for said persons rights and freedoms especially if they sit here and make biased fucking judgments yet they have no experience in that situation what so fucking ever.
Well I don't live in the USA. So no worries about that. But I can't say I hate it or that your country sucks. Haven't claimed or said so ever and don't see this changing. However, if you think you're doing (or did) your job in Iraq for the rights and the freedom of your people at home, then you leave my speechless.
Allow me just one more comment: just because you participated and experienced situations in the fields, doesn't make your judgments unbiased.
I would have shot him over less. People die everyday, who cares :)
Hmm time to update this, now they moved to http://www.wikileaks.ch/ and you can always find updates at http://twitter.com/wikileaks

and also updates about WikiLeaks' status at:
http://www.wlcentral.org/ and http://news.netcraft.com/

plus, Ars reports on it:
http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2010/11/wikileaks-us-sought-dna-passwords-of-world-leaders.ars

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/wheres-wikileaks-the-infowar-is-on-as-site-hops-servers.ars

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/meet-the-people-who-want-julian-assange-whacked.ars
Post edited December 06, 2010 by taczillabr
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bossonova: I would have shot him over less. People die everyday, who cares :)
Whom please?
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Dascryborg: However if you live in the USA and you slander it and say this country fucking sucks then by all means you can move to another country (not saying you said that, just saying in general) as I do not wish to be fighting for said persons rights and freedoms especially if they sit here and make biased fucking judgments yet they have no experience in that situation what so fucking ever.
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Siannah: Well I don't live in the USA. So no worries about that. But I can't say I hate it or that your country sucks. Haven't claimed or said so ever and don't see this changing. However, if you think you're doing (or did) your job in Iraq for the rights and the freedom of your people at home, then you leave my speechless.
Allow me just one more comment: just because you participated and experienced situations in the fields, doesn't make your judgments unbiased.
I did my job and helped make things better for everyone even if it was just a small amount. How many High Value Targets have you bagged and tagged? I came back from my time over there with numerous citations and awards. Have you ever been in a situation where your life is threatened? Even if all of this crap was/is about oil taking out the World Trade Center probably wasn't a great Idea on their part. That forced our hand and now we are taking the fight to them. Unfortunately the battle field is the home of civilians but the terrorist are cowards and hide amongst them and kill them. Their only interest is power, religion is out of question they use religion to justify their actions which blatantly go against their religious laws.

Anyways, Yes I fought for EVERYONES freedom while I was over there. I stopped people from killing others. So yes I forgot for EVERYONES freedom. Terrorist are pieces of shit and I do wish a world of pain and suffering on anyone who is or supports terrorism. I know that the men in that film were carrying weapons I know that one idiot pointed something that resembled an RPG at a Helicopter ( and yes it resembles an RPG when 90% of the person is behind cover and you cant see around it) even if it was a news man with a camera. People with fake guns get shot by cops all the time ... Why? Because it is a perceived threat. Those men are justified in their shooting, anyone who says differently then you better have some sort of grand enlightenment for your argument other wise you have no credibility what so ever.

I am not saying my opinion is unbiased, I am saying that I at the least have some experience in these situations.
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Dascryborg: Anyways, Yes I fought for EVERYONES freedom while I was over there. I stopped people from killing others. So yes I forgot for EVERYONES freedom.
What a nice thing this freedom is, eh?
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Dascryborg: Anyways, Yes I fought for EVERYONES freedom while I was over there. I stopped people from killing others. So yes I forgot for EVERYONES freedom.
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Fenixp: What a nice thing this freedom is, eh?
Freedom is quite nice. I will agree with that.
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Dascryborg: I am not saying my opinion is unbiased, I am saying that I at the least have some experience in these situations.
And from what you've said thus far it seems that that experience has put you so close to the situation that it's significantly clouding your judgment. So much of your perception of yourself and your deeds is invested in particular beliefs and interpretations of events that you resist alternative evaluations and interpretations to the point of irrationality. This is one of the reasons why it's so important that information about events be made publicly available, so there can be open dialogue between people with numerous different perspectives, and so that voters can be exposed to both the raw information and the variety of interpretations when making their decisions.

If you want Wikileaks and similar organizations to go away then work on making them obsolete. Work towards ensuring that information is made available to the public as widely and quickly as reasonably possible so that we can get a little bit closer to once again having a functioning democracy. Some things do need to be kept secret for at least a little while, but at this point the government and the military have lost all credibility when it comes to their judgment of what information should and should not be released to the public. If you actually care about the US then I suggest you work on the large task of repairing that credibility, rather than further eroding it as you are currently doing.
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Dascryborg: I did my job and helped make things better for everyone even if it was just a small amount. How many High Value Targets have you bagged and tagged? I came back from my time over there with numerous citations and awards. Have you ever been in a situation where your life is threatened? Even if all of this crap was/is about oil taking out the World Trade Center probably wasn't a great Idea on their part. That forced our hand and now we are taking the fight to them. Unfortunately the battle field is the home of civilians but the terrorist are cowards and hide amongst them and kill them. Their only interest is power, religion is out of question they use religion to justify their actions which blatantly go against their religious laws.

Anyways, Yes I fought for EVERYONES freedom while I was over there. I stopped people from killing others. So yes I forgot for EVERYONES freedom. Terrorist are pieces of shit and I do wish a world of pain and suffering on anyone who is or supports terrorism. I know that the men in that film were carrying weapons I know that one idiot pointed something that resembled an RPG at a Helicopter ( and yes it resembles an RPG when 90% of the person is behind cover and you cant see around it) even if it was a news man with a camera. People with fake guns get shot by cops all the time ... Why? Because it is a perceived threat. Those men are justified in their shooting, anyone who says differently then you better have some sort of grand enlightenment for your argument other wise you have no credibility what so ever.

I am not saying my opinion is unbiased, I am saying that I at the least have some experience in these situations.
And this isn't just PTSD talking? Because you're clearly engaged in emotional reasoning.

I've had my life threatened and nearly wound up in a pool of my own blood and a nasty gash across the throat, but I do think that you're misrepresenting things a bit.

Just because there is justification to use lethal force doesn't mean that's the correct course of action. It's a judgment call in any case. The continuum of force exists for a reason. Nobody seriously expects somebody in a life threatening situation to get it exactly right every time, but suggesting that every life threatening situation is equivalent or that it makes it OK to choose lethal force because it's justified is a bit questionable. Too much of it depends on the specific situation and certainly more than the public has access to. For my part probably the only reason why I didn't end up as another dead body was because I didn't let my emotions tell me what to do. I stayed calm and I lived.

We haven't got much freedom left in the US. We do still have more than many parts of the world, but the US is pretty much the only place I know of where it's considered acceptable to allow security to forcibly sexually abuse everybody wanting to fly on a plane.
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Fenixp: What a nice thing this freedom is, eh?
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Dascryborg: Freedom is quite nice. I will agree with that.
I especially like the whole 'freedom of speech' thingy. Why take it away from anyone then?
Wikileaks proved to be quite interesting material to read but it only confirm suspicions of many people around the world. Sadly we can't do anything about it.

What is really terrifying to me is the fact that this whole "war on terror" mess is the outcome of inconsistent foreign policy of USA government and the price of it is paid ,as always; in blood of civilians.

And I really don't like this attitude - "if you don't support American effort in a war on terror you should find yourself another country to live in". You know why? Because it is the first mark of nationalism. Patriots can support their country but they can also disagree when something is going wrong. On the other hand, nationalists are always blindly supportive.

I am not anti-American but I'm really concerned about the way USA is heading.
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Dascryborg: Freedom is quite nice. I will agree with that.
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Fenixp: I especially like the whole 'freedom of speech' thingy. Why take it away from anyone then?
I am not taking it away from anyone, I am just saying if you're going to make an uneducated comment about something then you instantly lose your credibility as you end up making yourself look dumb. I have made my statement about the one video and it is a very accurate statement. Talk all you want about it but thats the way it went down, they saw a viable threat and they squashed it. What do you think would happen to you if you and your buddies were walking around with AKs and an RPG in a war zone? Hrm let me think ... dumb idea. Then people turn around and say oh they were killing innocent people ... sure news men died, they know the risks of walking around with a group of terrorist or terrorist supporters. Those people who say its just us needlessly killing innocents civilians have no credibility. At least in my eyes.
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Dascryborg: ...
Oh no I fully approve of the shooting, they've had 2 choices and both of them were quite valid. Of course they chose the one to save their necks.

The fact that people DO indeed form uneducated opinions doesn't necessarily mean they should not get the access to such information; "Certain things have no place in our daily lives such as the marines firing on "innocents" video. " - from your posts, I have understood you're basically saying that. People should have access to all information, not just those some guys somewhere 'approve' of.
To go with the "marines firing on 'innocents'" angle with regard to control of information.

Let's say you need to go get a surgery done. Doesn't really matter what. And let's say you have a four year old kid.

Now, by the whole "everyone should have access to everything" argument, you would let the kid watch a video of a similar surgery, so that said kid can be more educated. Now, no matter how much parental guidance you give, a four year old isn't going to want their mommy or daddy to go get sliced up. And seeing said information is just going to make the kid make poor decisions/choices (throwing temper tantrums, being afraid of doctors, etc).

I am all for people making informed decisions. But, as has been mentioned, many people aren't capable of making an informed decision due to a lack of maturity, knowledge, or just overwhelming political views (and this goes for all sides). And when said "source of truth" spins things to look as bad and inflammatory as possible, that doesn't help.
Post edited December 04, 2010 by Gundato
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Gundato: Let's say you need to go get a surgery done. Doesn't really matter what. And let's say you have a four year old kid.
4 years old kid clearly won't be able to make any actual decisions, there's a reason for age limitations. 20 years old student, on the other hand, already does have the capacity: And he does so, on daily basis. Now the information on wikileaks is on the level of what you'd get in newspaper; it's just something someone doesn't want people to know. With or without wikileaks, people would form uneducated opinions on important subjects - however, with it, educated people can actually know what the hell is going on.