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Trilarion: But you still lose all the data (save games, ...) since the last backup.
I don't, since my my data (including games) is on D:\partition, which I regularly image-backup too.

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Trilarion: Turning Windows updates on is also not much effort. What is the benefit of not keeping Windows up to date?
I have Windows Update set up as "check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them".
When new updates are detected I search all the particular KB numbers on the internet to see what they're doing in reality. This way I never downloaded and installed the W10 update, all the spyware KB that they added later etc
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zeroxxx: In case to avoid misunderstanding, I'll try to elaborate in details.
Source for that? Because if you have a retail license of Windows 7, you do not lose said license by upgrading to 10. You still retain that license. The machine where you install 10 gets a digital entitlement allowing it to use Win10 from then on, which is a second, separate license.

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zeroxxx: If you have recovery partition (OEM license) or Windows 7 FPP key (which we have) and restore it (which is within your right since it's tied to one single machine), you lose the access to Windows 10, but you can reinstall Windows 10 later even after 10 years on that machine.
So what about upgrading to 10, reverting to 7, then doing a clean install of 10 and dual booting it with 7? Microsoft does encourage it, and you are using 2 licenses on a single machine. How would that happen if one of the licenses were revoked?

Again, I don't have a copy of the EULA handy, and not sure I want to go looking, but the Win10 license is in addition to whatever license you currently have, it doesn't replace it.
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hedwards: I think you're vastly underestimating how dysfunctional MS has been. ... snip
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Brasas: Maybe. But you are kind of agreeing with me they are moving in a better direction and more focused. Considering they didn't really suffer much even while dysfunctional (stock was quite stable, market shares declined but far from collapse, cash cows still milking - and the one I think is critical, continued investment in Azure as competitor to AWS) I don't see a lot of downside now. The competitive landscape also shifted in their favor with Apple losing steam after Jobs' passing and Google, sorry Alphabet, continuing to be quite unfocused.

I mean, giving Win10 away for free was a brilliant move. The fact Win10 seems to be overall a pretty decent OS is cherry on the cake for them. All despite the dominant opinion here on GOG that Win10 is akin to a computer virus trying to infect us. :D
Windows 10 is definitely not a decent OS. And yes it is akin to a virus, very few people choose to have Windows installed. It's usually preloaded on the computer or something that we have to have in order to run software that we need. It's been nearly 20 years since anybody was actually excited by the prospect of a new version of Windows coming out that wasn't a fanboy.

I remember when windows 95 came out, there was a huge amount of excitement in and out of the tech sector here. These days, you'd have to be diehard fanboy to think that this lump of crap is acceptable. They're still playing catch up since Vista and have more than demonstrated that they don't know where they're going.

And I'm not agreeing with you, my comments about right direction have to do with internal policies that are necessary in order to have any hope of having the OS moving in the right direction. If the OS were moving in the right direction, they wouldn't need to be giving it out for free and pushing people to update.
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hedwards: Yes, but Windows has had terrible support for that for as long as I can remember. It's improved, but it's rather embarrassing compared with the other options.

These days it's not so bad in absolute terms, but in relative terms it's quite far behind. I didn't really bother much with testing the 10 version, so hopefully things are better.
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lukaszthegreat: hows windows 10 multiple monitor support bad?
I don't know, I only installed it in a VM. There's no way in hell that I'd install that lump of crap on real hardware. This way I was able to see just how crappy it was without destroying an install.

There's a ton of flexibility that you get with X that Windows still lacks. Sure, you can snap a window to half the height, a quarter of the total monitor space or the whole thing. But, I think they still lack the ability to slice the monitor the way that X lets you. So, with today's super wide screens, you can't just convert one monitor into two screens and have two slightly more narrow than perfect screens.

Like I've been saying for quite some time now, MS is way, way behind the ball when it comes to their OS, it's rather sad that with all the money they have, they still can't catch up.
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Klumpen0815: Not using a computer is the safest way.
There are lots of things one can do without; like making music, reading books, playing board games, dancing, sports, etc...
People should try it more often! ;)
Sure, those are things we can do without, but what about the necessities of life like porn?
Post edited November 03, 2015 by hedwards
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hedwards: Sure, those are things we can do without, but what about the necessities of life like porn?
attach
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tju94.jpg (82 Kb)
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hedwards: snip
So you consider they didn't choose to release Win10 for free? Someone put a gun to their head and forced them to do it or something? The fact they decided to do it under higher or lower pressure from the market does not change that they likely think it's a good move for themselves and consciously pursued such a strategy - it wasn't a coerced decision.

Then if you want to be a little bit pedantic about people not choosing windows because of it being preloaded - which is misleading despite being strictly true, then I can riposte that people choose to keep Windows installed by huge margins. One could say they accept it. Are all of them fanboys as you've implied?

Or are you actually trying to convince anyone here that Windows is not the dominant OS for desktop and laptop? Ergo, outside of mobility areas where Android dominates.

Basically, what do you base the statement / opinion of Win10 not being decent? Kindly park the privacy / spyware arguments and give me something else. Because as mentioned the GOG concern with spyware is atypical of normal users which divulge all sorts of personal information from Facebook to Google and elsewhere around - that cat is well out of the bag and I expect will not have any meaningful negative market impact - rather the opposite as for Enterprises the Win10 approach is a plus.

Bottom line is that the market reception I see is that Win8 UI went too far and adoption suffered hugely because of that, but Win10 pretty much managed to find a much better sweet spot. Ergo decent enough - decent does not mean excellent or great obviously.

Or actually, don't bother please? I don't think we need to rehash a Win10 pro or con debate. We clearly agree Win10 is not a threat to GOG or Steam, despite disagreeing why. I think MS doesn't particularly care about gaming nor online retail, you think MS is a clown show. I'm fine with leaving it like that.
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hedwards: snip
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Brasas: So you consider they didn't choose to release Win10 for free? Someone put a gun to their head and forced them to do it or something? The fact they decided to do it under higher or lower pressure from the market does not change that they likely think it's a good move for themselves and consciously pursued such a strategy - it wasn't a coerced decision.

Then if you want to be a little bit pedantic about people not choosing windows because of it being preloaded - which is misleading despite being strictly true, then I can riposte that people choose to keep Windows installed by huge margins. One could say they accept it. Are all of them fanboys as you've implied?

Or are you actually trying to convince anyone here that Windows is not the dominant OS for desktop and laptop? Ergo, outside of mobility areas where Android dominates.

Basically, what do you base the statement / opinion of Win10 not being decent? Kindly park the privacy / spyware arguments and give me something else. Because as mentioned the GOG concern with spyware is atypical of normal users which divulge all sorts of personal information from Facebook to Google and elsewhere around - that cat is well out of the bag and I expect will not have any meaningful negative market impact - rather the opposite as for Enterprises the Win10 approach is a plus.

Bottom line is that the market reception I see is that Win8 UI went too far and adoption suffered hugely because of that, but Win10 pretty much managed to find a much better sweet spot. Ergo decent enough - decent does not mean excellent or great obviously.

Or actually, don't bother please? I don't think we need to rehash a Win10 pro or con debate. We clearly agree Win10 is not a threat to GOG or Steam, despite disagreeing why. I think MS doesn't particularly care about gaming nor online retail, you think MS is a clown show. I'm fine with leaving it like that.
They didn't really have much choice about releasing it for free. Between OSX and Linux the competition is a lot more stiff than it used to be. Windows 10 is better than 8, but it's not anywhere near as good as Vista or 7. And yes, I do mean Vista, they got that one straightened out eventually.

Holding off on the release until the OS actually got good wasn't an option as people are already realizing that they don't have to upgrade just because MS releases a new version.

You can argue that people choose to keep the Windows install, but it's asinine to suggest that means anything. That's sloth. Windows is the default install and most people are not competent enough to install something other than what's installed by default. That's been MS' bread and butter for decades now. Bully their way onto OEM installs knowing that most people aren't going to install something else unless the OS is complete shit. Most people do not use Windows because it's good, they use it because it's automatically installed on most computers. Hell, a large portion of the user base wouldn't even know that Windows was on the computer if there wasn't that huge splash screen informing them of that every time they turned it on.

Cynical perhaps, but completely consistent with all the people I've had to help deal with MS' numerous unpatched bugs.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that people are accepting Windows 10. That's a bit like suggesting that because this car just breaks down randomly rather than also catching on fire that the automaker is on the right track. No, the automaker is still incompetent, it's just that its cars are no longer killing people. Same basic thing here. The computers that came preloaded with 7 are starting to break down and people are grateful to have something other than 8 to get preloaded on them. I don't see anything in 10 to be proud of other than the fact that it's not 8.

I agree that 10 isn't a threat to GOG or Steam, mostly because I don't think it's a threat to anybody. A larger and larger portion of the computing public is using tablets and smartphones, and MS isn't a viable contender there at the present. I doubt that they will be anytime soon either. They just don't have the 3rd party app support necessary to compete. I remember when I got my Nexus One all those years ago and the App store was still significantly better than whatever Google was calling there's at the time. And the difference right now is even bigger.

As far as decency of OS goes, try using the other options and try and say that Windows is decent with a straight face. I just can't imagine how anybody could do that. The only reason to choose to get a Windows computer is for games. That's it. I have a hard time coming up with anything about Windows that's particularly special or ahead of the game. MS has always made money by copying other people's ideas and then convincing systems integrators to put their OS on it, rather than something that's actually good. It's the same now as it was nearly 25 years ago when Win 3.1 came out.
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hedwards: Sure, those are things we can do without, but what about the necessities of life like porn?
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Lin545: attach
Damned cats, you know if it weren't for them, I would have a girlfriend.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by hedwards
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Rest of post invalid due to that completely false statement. No such thing as "isn't too bad DRM"

However, sadly, yes, the sheeple of the world are stupidly embracing the walled-garden, "app-store" mentality and it is and will harm everyone.
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Antimateria: I'm using win 7 and i haven't really seen why I should upgrade.
Downgrade. Everything about Windows 10 is inferior to 7, with the possible exception of boot times. Which is trivial.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by mqstout
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Johnathanamz: Stop calling Windows 10 spyware please. You can turn some of the privacy stuff off.
And how much is MS paying you to shill? Windows 10 _IS_ completely spyware. It's gross and disgusting. And you can't turn ALL of it it off. On a computer at work I've been spending almost a week hacking shit to try to get it to do less spying, and it still does too much.

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Johnathanamz:
Funny, Windows 10 has even more stigma than 8 did. 8 only messed up the UI. 10 doesn't fix that... and has all the malware, violating trust [by forcing upgrades], and other stigmas added.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by mqstout
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mqstout: Rest of post invalid due to that completely false statement. No such thing as "isn't too bad DRM"
False statement? An opinion can never be false, only facts can.

In my opinion it's not so bad. To some people there is a level of acceptance for DRM & for other their is not. Doesn't make my statement any less valid, only not valid to you. There is far worse DRM schemes then what Windows 10 is doing.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by user deleted
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Johnathanamz: Stop calling Windows 10 spyware please. You can turn some of the privacy stuff off.
Any DRM should be assumed to be malware. And Windows has built-in DRM.
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USERNAME:mqstout#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:142#Q&_^Q&Q#Rest of post invalid due to that completely false statement. No such thing as "isn't too bad DRM"#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:142#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Firstly, yes. Opinions can be false. See: "I am of the opinion that... <insert a universally accepted as immoral act here> is perfectly fine."
Secondly, it's not an "opinion". It is impossible for there to be such a thing as "isn't too bad DRM". You can't just say it's opinion. It IS a fact. DRM is DRM is a knife on your neck pressing, in letting blood out.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by mqstout
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mqstout: Firstly, yes. Opinions can be false. See: "I am of the opinion that... <insert a universally accepted as immoral act here> is perfectly fine."
Secondly, it's not an "opinion". It is impossible for there to be such a thing as "isn't too bad DRM". You can't just say it's opinion. It IS a fact. DRM is DRM is a knife on your neck pressing, in letting blood out.
That doesn't make it false, that makes it just morally unacceptable to most people... not the same thing. An opinion is what someone believes, therefor an opinion can be anything because you can believe anything.

I'm not going to argue with you over something so trivial though. Whether or not DRM is bad is subjective to the person using said DRM. It's not a fact because *you* believe it to be, even though I generally agree DRM in general is bad. But that is my opinion. I just can live with some forms of DRM. For something to be fact it has to be able to be proven, and you can't prove DRM is bad no more than someone can prove DRM is good without being obviously biased.

Anyway this isn't a debate about DRM... so please don't turn it into one. Thanks.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by user deleted
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DRM is unethical, same as police state methodology is. Those who consider it ethical must be supporters of similar repressive ideas. It's part of its very definition, therefore it's not something disputable.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by shmerl
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Johnathanamz: Stop calling Windows 10 spyware please. You can turn some of the privacy stuff off.
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mqstout: And how much is MS paying you to shill? Windows 10 _IS_ completely spyware. It's gross and disgusting. And you can't turn ALL of it it off. On a computer at work I've been spending almost a week hacking shit to try to get it to do less spying, and it still does too much.

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mqstout:
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mqstout: Funny, Windows 10 has even more stigma than 8 did. 8 only messed up the UI. 10 doesn't fix that... and has all the malware, violating trust [by forcing upgrades], and other stigmas added.
I'm not surprised considering in this capitalist world we live in, everything is done so people can profit. So when someone offers you something that is free, it's not really free. They will profit from giving you this "gift", somehow. I'm guessing Microsoft will profit from giving people Windows 10, the same way, Google profits from letting people use their search engine for free.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by monkeydelarge
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shmerl: DRM is unethical, same as police state methodology is. Those who consider it ethical must be supporters of similar repressive ideas. It's part of its very definition, therefore it's not something disputable.
It might very well be unethical, this is again an opinion... I don't necessary disagree with your point or his on DRM being unethical or bad. But this is something you believe, not something that is necessary true. It is not a fact. Some people consider hunting unethical, some people consider taking drugs unethical. Not everyone agrees, they form an opinion about such things. Furthermore you can consider certain parts of something unethical or ethical, but not form an view on it as a whole. For instance, I might feel hunting endangered species is unethical but find hunting in general fine.

Again lets not turn this into some DRM debate... this thread is not about DRM. Sadly this is what nearly everything turns into on GOG. Mqstout is clearly biased and has a strong dislike for any form of DRM. I, on the other hand, dislike DRM in general but can tolerate certain forms of DRM. Neither opinion is wrong, but its still only an opinion

The very statement that supporting DRM means"must be supporters of similar repressive ideas" is wrong on so may levels. They both stem from the idea of control but there is a large difference between software access and peoples freedom. Trying to lump them as one and the same is quite frankly absurd. Context means a lot in whether something is ethical or not.
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mqstout: Funny, Windows 10 has even more stigma than 8 did. 8 only messed up the UI. 10 doesn't fix that... and has all the malware, violating trust [by forcing upgrades], and other stigmas added.
And yet the Windows 10 adoption is much much higher than 8 ever was, has more store/app usage and was reviewed favorably by many major tech sites. Being biased is fine, but when your so obviously biased about something it kind of hard to a have a intelligent discussion about the subject. Windows 10 has controversy yes... but rather if it worse that 8 is an entire another subject. The actual facts don't seem to high on your priority list.
Post edited November 04, 2015 by user deleted