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vidsgame: They are solid but the reliance on Wine could be an issue as there is no alternative. Being unable to run the majority of the games on Linux without Wine is a huge issue because Wine updates and I have found that those at least break one game.
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hmcpretender: Therefore I'd recommend to create individual wine-prefixes for each application that don't get updated. It's quite easy to do with a graphical front end like Play On Linux or Lutris.

It's still a lot more effort needed than on windows obviously but that is to be expected if you try to run a game on an unsupported OS.
True. It is, indeed. I'd love to see the day Linux or any other open source OS for that matter get support for almost all the games or at least as many as Windows.
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Darvond: ...Opinion: Why bother at this point? By the time the support fee comes into play, the OS will be 11 years old by that point. Users have already been given excess time to consider other options, and driver support will be rapidly drying up for the system. Already, several CPUs are are outright incompatible.
Two reasons.

1. Old systems are still running fine. I know someone with a computer running Windows XP (not connected to the internet) and the computer is still running fine for his needs. He simply doesn't care at all about driver support or incompatible new CPUs and why should he?

2. Businesses need stable, running systems compatible with sometimes very old software. They don't want to migrate and migrate all the time and they may rely on really old software, for example airline ticket booking systems are basically decades old. For them support of an older Windows version is worth money. That's why Microsoft offers it. In the end it's cheaper than always migrating to the latest OS.
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Spectre: Unfortunately it's almost as bad in a number of ways with its constant need to connect to the internet to download this or that.
lies. Linux in general doesnt even require connection for its installation - only flash drive/disk/floppy(lol)/whatever with its iso on it. Same for updates - they all can be done offline in similar manner (you just need a drive with required packets on it).

Plus you update it only when you want to do so. No "I'VE JUST DOWNLOADED 30GB OF UPDATES AND WILL RESTART YOUR PC TO APPLY THEM, OKAY? YES/YES" bs
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Trilarion: 2. Businesses need stable, running systems compatible with sometimes very old software. They don't want to migrate and migrate all the time and they may rely on really old software, for example airline ticket booking systems are basically decades old. For them support of an older Windows version is worth money. That's why Microsoft offers it. In the end it's cheaper than always migrating to the latest OS.
You'd think that with computing being in the form it is for close to 40+ years, businesses would have learned about the value of having an exit/upgrade plan. With virtualization and emulation now being a fine art form as it is, there are several solutions. If some software was so badly coded as to only be able to run on XP/7, that's on the designer.
low rated
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Trilarion: 1. Old systems are still running fine. I know someone with a computer running Windows XP (not connected to the internet) and the computer is still running fine for his needs. He simply doesn't care at all about driver support or incompatible new CPUs and why should he?
That is his own limited viewpoint and his own problem. Technology is moving on, hardware and software is getting more and more incompatible with old systems. One day (sooner rather than later) his old machine will croak and he will be left with no option but to get a new one and adopt whatever is new.

Also, with browsers having to conform to newer standards, it's a surprise XP can even see anything on the Internet anymore.

Finally, does anyone even care about the non-existent security of an unsupported system?

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Trilarion: 2. Businesses need stable, running systems compatible with sometimes very old software. They don't want to migrate and migrate all the time and they may rely on really old software, for example airline ticket booking systems are basically decades old. For them support of an older Windows version is worth money. That's why Microsoft offers it. In the end it's cheaper than always migrating to the latest OS.
Most businesses don't want to buy anything, first and foremost. Those that actually deal with technology know that newer hardware and software aids them rather than hinders them.


#FuckYourPettyComfortZones

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Gekko_Dekko: Plus you update it only when you want to do so. No "I'VE JUST DOWNLOADED 30GB OF UPDATES AND WILL RESTART YOUR PC TO APPLY THEM, OKAY? YES/YES" bs
You do know you can postpone updates to an hour when you're not using the computer so all those 30 GB can be downloaded and applied in peace, right?
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Plokite_Wolf: You do know you can postpone updates to an hour when you're not using the computer so all those 30 GB can be downloaded and applied in peace, right?
Except on Windows 10, where it will often politely ignore said settings, and update whenever.
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Darvond: Opinion: Why bother at this point? By the time the support fee comes into play, the OS will be 11 years old by that point. Users have already been given excess time to consider other options, and driver support will be rapidly drying up for the system. Already, several CPUs are are outright incompatible.
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Darvond: You'd think that with computing being in the form it is for close to 40+ years, businesses would have learned about the value of having an exit/upgrade plan. With virtualization and emulation now being a fine art form as it is, there are several solutions. If some software was so badly coded as to only be able to run on XP/7, that's on the designer.
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Plokite_Wolf: Technology is moving on, hardware and software is getting more and more incompatible with old systems. One day (sooner rather than later) his old machine will croak and he will be left with no option but to get a new one and adopt whatever is new.
Eww… And who is paying for the party?

I mean, the hardware works for now and proprietary software distributors are not known for providing newer compatible versions for free. So, replacement of even one (still working!) workstation mandates re-purchasing all software (providing newer versions even exist) and sometimes due to sh**ty hardware design there are no drivers for peripherals (I've encountered a plotter that used "printing server" software and custom proprietary PCI extension card and cable for connection with drivers only for "Windows XP" while the company that produced them have since then switched to making motorboats!).

It is only natural that companies will try to use existing hardware for as long as possible.
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Plokite_Wolf: You do know you can postpone updates to an hour when you're not using the computer so all those 30 GB can be downloaded and applied in peace, right?
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hummer010: Except on Windows 10, where it will often politely ignore said settings, and update whenever.
I was able to defer updates for days just by turning off my computer some time before the scheduled hour.
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hmcpretender: Security isn't that much of an issue if you keep your browser up to date, don't install software from untrusted sources and have a backup ready just in case.
Um no, the first time a drive by worm steals all your sensitive data you'll realize just how much of an issue security is.

Any chances Microsoft will fix Win 10 to be a decent, user friendly OS by 2020?
Post edited September 12, 2018 by kalirion
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OldOldGamer: I'll never understand the hate for MS when the free alternative, like Linux, is the most self-incomatible OS ever.
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Crosmando: Windows is easy to use while Linux is not?
Windows isn't particularly easy to use. I've wasted tons of time over the years dealing with bugs that MS was too lazy to fix and their terrible documentation.
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darthspudius: No need to ever go back to Win 7 when Win 10 is sooo good.
That's a good one. Windows 10 is a large part of why I'm going completely off of Windows.

Terrible interface, spies on the user and basically does little better than what 7 did.

EDIT: LOL, missed the sarcasm there.
Post edited September 12, 2018 by hedwards
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kalirion: Um no, the first time a drive by worm steals all your sensitive data you'll realize just how much of an issue security is.

Any chances Microsoft will fix Win 10 to be a decent, user friendly OS by 2020?
About the same chance that Gnome 3 will be a sleek streamlined Linux Desktop Environment.
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hmcpretender: Security isn't that much of an issue if you keep your browser up to date, don't install software from untrusted sources and have a backup ready just in case.
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kalirion: Um no, the first time a drive by worm steals all your sensitive data you'll realize just how much of an issue security is.

Any chances Microsoft will fix Win 10 to be a decent, user friendly OS by 2020?
Kept an XP machine around 4 years after EOL. Never had any issues following above guidline. And what sensitive data are you talking about. You don't keep sensitive data on machine that's connected to internet...
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Plokite_Wolf: ... That is his own limited viewpoint and his own problem. ...
I would say you are overly judgemental here. All his needs are 100% catered for at the moment. In a free world, here is no duty to upgrade the OS. Everyone decides for himself if it's worth it and it's none of anyone else's business. He will probably upgrade once the system really breaks down, but so far it doesn't look like it.
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kalirion: Um no, the first time a drive by worm steals all your sensitive data you'll realize just how much of an issue security is.

Any chances Microsoft will fix Win 10 to be a decent, user friendly OS by 2020?
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hmcpretender: Kept an XP machine around 4 years after EOL. Never had any issues following above guidline. And what sensitive data are you talking about. You don't keep sensitive data on machine that's connected to internet...
Any time you save a password in the browser or even just log into a website, any time you make an online purchase, and god help you if you do your taxes.
Post edited September 12, 2018 by kalirion
I can see Microsoft making their OS subscription based. If you don't wanna pay you're stuck with a little more than an internet browsing machine (where you're forced to use edge or explorer, any other browser requires you to upgrade your subscription). In order for the OS to function properly all your data must be harvested, and advertisements must be displayed all over the screen.