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kalirion: Any time you save a password in the browser or even just log into a website, any time you make an online purchase, and god help you if you do your taxes.
As much as I'd appreciate divine help with doing my taxes, I don't really get what you are trying to say here. Do you have first hand experiences with maintaining EOL-Systems you want to share or are you just reiterating what doomsayers around the web told you will happen?
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d3adb01t: I can see Microsoft making their OS subscription based. If you don't wanna pay you're stuck with a little more than an internet browsing machine (where you're forced to use edge or explorer, any other browser requires you to upgrade your subscription). In order for the OS to function properly all your data must be harvested, and advertisements must be displayed all over the screen.
Are they actually going to be providing help though? This is just about providing patches, I doubt that for the money they're charging they're going to be providing any real support.

MS has never provided much help themselves, that's been the responsibility of the OEM in most cases for decades. And if you bought a stand alone copy, they do provide some support, but depending upon the specifics, they charge outrageous sums of money for things they deem to not be their responsibility.
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d3adb01t: I can see Microsoft making their OS subscription based. If you don't wanna pay you're stuck with a little more than an internet browsing machine (where you're forced to use edge or explorer, any other browser requires you to upgrade your subscription). In order for the OS to function properly all your data must be harvested, and advertisements must be displayed all over the screen.
Well, with such a prospect I can't imagine why anyone would want to ditch Microsoft as their choice OS supplier. </sarcasm>

As a lifelong Win user I'm starting to dip my toes in Linux waters now, before I'm forced to take a full dive when my Win7 machines go. Because if there's one thing I am sure of about my future computers is that none of them will run that piece of crap called win 10.

Hopefully Windows Virtual machines will become much better at running our win games in the near future. But if they don't, fine. I still won't have a shortage of games
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joppo: Well, with such a prospect I can't imagine why anyone would want to ditch Microsoft as their choice OS supplier. </sarcasm>

As a lifelong Win user I'm starting to dip my toes in Linux waters now, before I'm forced to take a full dive when my Win7 machines go. Because if there's one thing I am sure of about my future computers is that none of them will run that piece of crap called win 10.

Hopefully Windows Virtual machines will become much better at running our win games in the near future. But if they don't, fine. I still won't have a shortage of games
You don't really need virtual machines in Linux, as there's an entire framework called WINE to allow you to skip all that rigmarole.
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Darvond: You don't really need virtual machines in Linux, as there's an entire framework called WINE to allow you to skip all that rigmarole.
Same basic principle, as far as I can tell. I just didn't bother too much about the semantics... it's still a virtual OS running in a contained environment inside another OS.

If my knowledge of the basic premise is faulty please do enlighten me, otherwise I'm not worried if I say "chicken" and you say "hen".
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joppo: Same basic principle, as far as I can tell. I just didn't bother too much about the semantics... it's still a virtual OS running in a contained environment inside another OS.

If my knowledge of the basic premise is faulty please do enlighten me, otherwise I'm not worried if I say "chicken" and you say "hen".
Except it isn't emulation. As directly stated first thing on Wine's own page.

I realize it isn't an easy concept to explain, and I may as well be off the mark.

But let me put it this way. DosBox is emulation, and can run actual Windows 3.1 in it. ReactOS is a complete system replacement. In vague terms, Wine is closer to the end of ReactOS than DOSbox.
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joppo: Same basic principle, as far as I can tell. I just didn't bother too much about the semantics... it's still a virtual OS running in a contained environment inside another OS.
If my knowledge of the basic premise is faulty please do enlighten me, otherwise I'm not worried if I say "chicken" and you say "hen".
Wine can be thought of as a translator that allows windows programs to talk to linux. Windows programs are based on the windows "application programming interface" or API. The programs talk to the windows API and other assorted microsoft APIs such as directx to draw on the screen, request network access, use system libraries(DLLs) to perform processing, and other things. Wine intercepts and translates these to linux system calls, libraries, and openGL calls effectively letting a window program talk to and run on a linux system. No virtual CPUs or graphics cards involved.

A virtual machine emulates all the hardware of real computer system. Motherboard BIOS/UEFI, all motherboard chipsets: audio, networking, usb, sata controllers, and more; CPU, optical drives, hard drive, graphic cards are emulated. Windows is literaly installed in this virtual machine and runs as if it were on a real computer. Then any software you want to use is installed on windows as usual.

Regards
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joppo: Same basic principle, as far as I can tell. I just didn't bother too much about the semantics... it's still a virtual OS running in a contained environment inside another OS.
Sorry to interrupt, but I have a bad news for you: perhaps, you are not as tech-savvy as you think you are.
To treat WINE as a "contained environment" is a gross blunder. Applications launched through WINE are executed in the same schedule as every native app, they show up in the task managers and their priority can be raised or lowered as usual. Theoretically, viruses (should they detect WINE usage) can attempt to use Linux/CPU vulnerabilities (like Meltdown) in order to inject themselves into system processes or steal data, and on top of that, WINE handily provides (by default) virtual "Z:" drive which is basically an alias to "/" (root directory) and any Windows™ program under WINE has access to all Linux filesystem, which can be used by "crypter" viruses in order to inflict damage.

So, this "not an emulator" is not a mere "semantics" and actually has a meaning that WINE is only active during 2 phases: 1) application loading (it acts as alternative loader as proper Linux loader "ld" understands only ELF format and can not unpack PE executables); and 2) if a Windows™ app calls for WIN32 API function/procedure/subroutine/method/however_you_call_it, providing either WINE-built-in or Windows™ native corresponding library. If the APP doesn't call anything WIndows™-specific and keeps to itself (like, doing math or logic implemented in its own code) then there is no need for WINE to interfere. This means that theoretically Windows™ applications can run under WINE better than on Windows™ (on the same hardware).
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Darvond:
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gogdaisuki:
Alright, I stand corrected then. Although I think that then the definition of emulation could be a bit broader to encompass Wine, with the distinct types of emulation given specific names to distinguish them when needed. Because let's face it, whenever you're not getting into the technical details calling the usage of Wine as emulation is "good enough" most of the time.
The current definition is is the sort of hair-splitting that makes the average non-technical user think Linux is much more complicated than Windows. (And getting that crowd from under MS's claws would do wonders to both widen Linux's adoption and get MS to think twice about how they treat their customers.)

Thanks for enlightening me anyway.
Post edited September 14, 2018 by joppo
Yeah Finally got my new keyboard two days ago and my printer 3 days ago just waiting on the printer cord!
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Alm888: Sorry to interrupt, but I have a bad news for you: perhaps, you are not as tech-savvy as you think you are.
I never claimed to be Linux-savvy. Quite the contrary actually, I said I was starting to use it only now. (Actually it didn't even start yet, it's a short term goal)

I can see both advantages and drawbacks in Wine's approach. That's good to know, so thank you
I would say Wine is Windows API wrapper.

Is not an emulator. DosBox is an emulator.

WINE is nice and cool but, in all honesty, I would use it as last hope.
Windows 10 is now free to use, no need to pay money (ok, you can't change a few things) so, to play, why not using it.
Post edited September 14, 2018 by OldOldGamer
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OldOldGamer: ... Windows 10 is now free to use, no need to pay money (ok, you can't change a few things) so, to play, why not using it.
Really? I must have missed that news. It sounds too good to be true. Could you maybe direct me to a site where I could get it?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

It is a few years ago, but I remember to have downloaded the tool form Microsoft, created the media and installed the thing.
Post edited September 14, 2018 by OldOldGamer
Hey All,

I run Win-10 v.1803 and I run Linux Mint 18.

Do you trust Windows on the Internet? I don't, so I don't allow Windows to connect to the Internet. Since it can't connect to the Internet, Windows is secure. I run NO anti-virus at all. It's not needed. And I don't allow Windows to update, so it can't change itself. It's frozen in time. That's just the way I like it.

How do I get to the Internet? Via Linux.

How do I run Linux? I boot Linux (the Guest) in a virtual machine running in Windows (the Host). The virtual machine is Oracle VirtualBox. I share most of my hard disk between Windows & Linux (in shared directories). You can have as many shared directories as you like. You can even share everything in one big shared directory if you prefer. You can make the Windows Host large and the Linux Guest small, or you can make the Windows Host small and the Linux Guest large, or whatever you want.

How does Linux connect to the Internet when Windows can't? The virtual machine's network driver connects directly to the Wi-Fi hardware.

What about Windows' awful user interface? I use Classic Start Menu.

I will supply details on request.

There's one more thing I'd like to do, but I don't know how to do it: I'd dearly love to turn both Windows & Linux into single-user systems.

Warm Regards,
Mark.
Post edited September 14, 2018 by markfilipak