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General discussionWhy was the "Open Letter to GOG - The Linko90 Support Thread" thread locked? (535 posts)(535 posts)
(535 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 21, 2018
When there is a warning I always just assume it's to me and either correct what I did or make sure I don't do what I now know I shouldn't.

Of course, if I should know what I didn't know when I did it, then how could I know not to to do what I should have done when I was doing it after I learned that I had done it?
Post edited November 21, 2018 by tinyE
Posted November 21, 2018
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chandra: To clarify, people were contacted (just not publicly), Consider the post a warning/reminder that following the guidelines is necessary to engage in discussions here. It's that simple and yet, in the heat of the moment, some, sadly, seem to forget about it.
Just keep being fair and balanced and you have nothing to feel guilty about. You're almost perfect at this. ;p
Post edited November 21, 2018 by richlind33
Posted November 21, 2018
low rated
That fact is, Linko was fired. No one has evidence that he wasn't, and there is plenty of evidence including two credible reports that he was.

And the reason he was fired is a group of self-proclaimed "socially conscious" people who are looking for companies to complain about. I read posts on ResetEra. You can't imagine how many companies people there want to add to their boycott list. Stardock because of Brad Wardell just because he was accused of sexual assault. Doesn't matter that his accuser was exposed for lying in court and the judge ordered her to apologize over it. These people still pretend it's true. HuniePop is a banned topic on their forums along with a dozen other games specifically names including GalGun and Monster Monpiece. And CDPR isn't the only company they want to go after for some tweet. They were rolling off companies whose CEO or CFO made any tweet supporting Trump, calling them alt-right fascists deserving of boycotts. They were saying it was no surprise the GoG/CDPR are backwards because the Polish president is an alt-right Fascist too. They despise about half the industry...

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Postal 2 tweet, nor the gif. No one was harassing anyone by posting that. The Dude pissing on a tombstone saying "Games Journalism" is not harassment and transphobia. So anyone proclaiming how bad Linko did at his job for that tweet isn't thinking very straight. And anyone saying it was a firing worthy offense isn't putting themselves in his shoes.

Just as there was nothing wrong when Valve said they will not be removing HuniePop or other visual novels from Steam. There was just as much outrage pointed at them, with negative press from our "games journalists" and blogs post and tweets condemning them over it. But Valve stood their ground. CDPR should learn from that.

GoG can try to just "stick to posting about games" all they want. This won't prevent the next outrage. These people WILL take offense at something in the very near future. They won't like the developer because he's "alt-right" which means the other 92% of the population. Something in the gif will be "offensive" maybe a woman will be the bad guy. It can and will be ANYTHING. And if you think otherwise, during the next "outrage", just remember, I TOLD YOU SO!

GoG, quit giving in! It's not helping you at all! You gave an inch starting with throwing the PCMR customers under the bus. Did that help you? Did that prevent the next outrage? And every time you cave, the mob finds another trifling thing to rage over. And because you caved, they are more likely to attack you again because you gave in.

That is why we have had more frequent "outrages". When you cave in to the mob, they know they have power over you. Now that they know you will cave, they look to use their power more often. It was not Linko's fault. It was your fault CDPR/GoG for empowering the mob by caving in.
Posted November 21, 2018
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chandra: To clarify, people were contacted (just not publicly),
that changes things then. good stuff!
Posted November 21, 2018
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RWarehall: That fact is, Linko was fired. No one has evidence that he wasn't, and there is plenty of evidence including two credible reports that he was.

And the reason he was fired is a group of self-proclaimed "socially conscious" people who are looking for companies to complain about. I read posts on ResetEra. You can't imagine how many companies people there want to add to their boycott list. Stardock because of Brad Wardell just because he was accused of sexual assault. Doesn't matter that his accuser was exposed for lying in court and the judge ordered her to apologize over it. These people still pretend it's true. HuniePop is a banned topic on their forums along with a dozen other games specifically names including GalGun and Monster Monpiece. And CDPR isn't the only company they want to go after for some tweet. They were rolling off companies whose CEO or CFO made any tweet supporting Trump, calling them alt-right fascists deserving of boycotts. They were saying it was no surprise the GoG/CDPR are backwards because the Polish president is an alt-right Fascist too. They despise about half the industry...

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Postal 2 tweet, nor the gif. No one was harassing anyone by posting that. The Dude pissing on a tombstone saying "Games Journalism" is not harassment and transphobia. So anyone proclaiming how bad Linko did at his job for that tweet isn't thinking very straight. And anyone saying it was a firing worthy offense isn't putting themselves in his shoes.

Just as there was nothing wrong when Valve said they will not be removing HuniePop or other visual novels from Steam. There was just as much outrage pointed at them, with negative press from our "games journalists" and blogs post and tweets condemning them over it. But Valve stood their ground. CDPR should learn from that.

GoG can try to just "stick to posting about games" all they want. This won't prevent the next outrage. These people WILL take offense at something in the very near future. They won't like the developer because he's "alt-right" which means the other 92% of the population. Something in the gif will be "offensive" maybe a woman will be the bad guy. It can and will be ANYTHING. And if you think otherwise, during the next "outrage", just remember, I TOLD YOU SO!

GoG, quit giving in! It's not helping you at all! You gave an inch starting with throwing the PCMR customers under the bus. Did that help you? Did that prevent the next outrage? And every time you cave, the mob finds another trifling thing to rage over. And because you caved, they are more likely to attack you again because you gave in.

That is why we have had more frequent "outrages". When you cave in to the mob, they know they have power over you. Now that they know you will cave, they look to use their power more often. It was not Linko's fault. It was your fault CDPR/GoG for empowering the mob by caving in.
Whatever.
Posted November 21, 2018
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Telika: The context of this thread (or of the report itself) does not matter. What matters is that they made a quantitative survey, asking "Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? Political correctness is a problem in our country." to different individuals who, themselves, have various understanding of the word. And who answered in accordance to their own understanding of it.
While generally your statement would be correct, in the particular case of "political correctness" i cant agree with you.
On one hand im sure very few would be able to define the term (if its even definable given how many things it covers).
On the other hand, im sure almost each and every person in the survey would be able to point out cases of political correctness, which consist mainly of firing people over something they said, followed by character assassination in the general media. Does not surprise me that a large part of the population is fed up with this ongoing practice, that borders on insanity.

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Telika: Make such a superficial poll about "incivility" in a community. You'll have a pretty high number of people wishing it was reduced.
Based on it, make practical rules against incivility, and you'll have a whole load of theose people, who seemed to agree, suddenly going "hey, this is not at all what I meant as incivility" and "you left this out" or "you abusively included this". Even if (implicitely or explicitely) the notion has a clear shared meaning amongst the investigators, and a clear shared meaning amongst the decision makers, the issue is with the multiplicity of implicit meanings amongst the investigated people themselves.

And you'd end up using this poll to justify policies that they would not all have supported. Making them say what they didn't mean.
Thats a complex issue, because its composed of several elements.
The definition of incivility is only one of those elements.
As i said before even with a perfect and unanimously accepted definition, the interpretations of said definition could vary wildly, because you can not define everything perfectly.
There is no definition in the world that would help us draw a clear line and select objectively what is "incivility" and separate it from the rest.

The other element is the action taken to reduce "incivility". How far would you go and how rough?
Even if you accepted the unrealistic ideal that proper targeting of incivility would be possible, there would still be tensions over the ways you chose to handle it.

Last but not least, its very easy to make most people hate civility, by going berserk in dealing with incivility, and that is exactly what is going on in modern society, and personally i think its intended, because the ones doing it are the large media corporations, and they are no amateurs, they dont do things "by mistake", they know exactly what they are doing.
Post edited November 21, 2018 by kaboro
Posted November 21, 2018
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tinyE: When there is a warning I always just assume it's to me and either correct what I did or make sure I don't do what I now know I shouldn't.

Of course, if I should know what I didn't know when I did it, then how could I know not to to do what I should have done when I was doing it after I learned that I had done it?
Entirely ontopic then:

Did you ever get...

A. Fired?
B. Asked to resign?
C. Threads on a forum about it?
D. Bricks through your window with crudely scrawled messages in crayon attached / a lynchmob at your proverbial door?
E. None of the above due to NDA?

...due to not knowing what you should have know had you known, which you didnt know?

- or am I completely out of the loop now?
Post edited November 21, 2018 by Sachys
Posted November 21, 2018
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tinyE: When there is a warning I always just assume it's to me and either correct what I did or make sure I don't do what I now know I shouldn't.

Of course, if I should know what I didn't know when I did it, then how could I know not to to do what I should have done when I was doing it after I learned that I had done it?
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Sachys: Entirely ontopic then:

Did you ever get...

A. Fired?
B. Asked to resign?
C. Threads on a forum about it?
D. Bricks through your window with crudely scrawled messages in crayon attached / a lynchmob at your proverbial door?
E. None of the above due to NDA?

Due to not knowing what you should have know had you known, which you didnt know?

- or am I completely out of the loop now?
A. Yes
B. Yes
C. Yes, but I started them
D. No, though in college someone pinned a note on my door telling me that he was going to kill me if set foot outside of my room. Turns out he was bluffing. He just spit on me when I left the room. :P Hey Brent! How's it going?
Post edited November 21, 2018 by tinyE
Posted November 21, 2018
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tinyE: A. Yes
B. Yes
C. Yes, but I started them
D. No, though in college someone pinned a note on my door telling me that he was going to kill me if set foot outside of my room. Turns out he was bluffing. He just spit on me when I left the room. :P Hey Brent! How's it going?
Well, thats four strikes, you probably should have known.
Posted November 21, 2018
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richlind33: "Mass appeal" means appealing to everyone, at least potentially, which is far broader than what is at most a majority of the gaming demographic.
Where do you get that definition? No it doesn't. It means appealing to a large part of the overall group. One of the distortions of these "perpetually offended" is to claim a game has to be made to appeal to "everyone". That isn't true at all. Arnold Schwarzenegger movies has a mass appeal. Just because the main demographic is mostly male, doesn't mean it doesn't.

You have movies whose genre appeals to a small subset, such as many of the "arty" movies revealed at Sundance. They know the market for them is small, thus not "mass appeal".

What mass appeal certainly doesn't mean is making it appealing to everyone, because there is no such thing and every attempt seems to result in a bad movie.
Posted November 21, 2018
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tinyE: Just gonna leave these here.
lol, that was good, a true classic
Posted November 21, 2018
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richlind33: "Mass appeal" means appealing to everyone, at least potentially, which is far broader than what is at most a majority of the gaming demographic.
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RWarehall: Where do you get that definition? No it doesn't. It means appealing to a large part of the overall group. One of the distortions of these "perpetually offended" is to claim a game has to be made to appeal to "everyone". That isn't true at all. Arnold Schwarzenegger movies has a mass appeal. Just because the main demographic is mostly male, doesn't mean it doesn't.

You have movies whose genre appeals to a small subset, such as many of the "arty" movies revealed at Sundance. They know the market for them is small, thus not "mass appeal".

What mass appeal certainly doesn't mean is making it appealing to everyone, because there is no such thing and every attempt seems to result in a bad movie.
Nothing appeals to everyone? What about cheese? The vegans are lying... that’s why they make their weird soy cheese, because cheese has true mass appeal.
Posted November 21, 2018
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firstpastthepost: Nothing appeals to everyone? What about cheese? The vegans are lying... that’s why they make their weird soy cheese, because cheese has true mass appeal.
it got renamed Gary a while back for more mass appeal.

CONTEXT: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegan-cheese-renamed-gary-after-one-dairylovers-facebook-rant-goes-viral-a3360021.html
Post edited November 21, 2018 by Sachys
Posted November 21, 2018
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firstpastthepost: Nothing appeals to everyone? What about cheese?
You clearly don't know snowkatt^^
Posted November 21, 2018
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IMO, one thing is clear: a company like GOG cannot take sides in issues like this.
The reasons are simple:
-if they support side X, players from side Y will be upset and GOG could lose some business over it.
-if they support side Y, players from side X will be upset and GOG could lose some business over it.
-alternately, things could go out of control and GOG would be in a sea of PR trouble...and lose some business over it.

Not saying that the issue is unimportant, not trying to minimize anything, all im saying is that any other company, including Steam, would have reacted the same way.
If GOG backed up Linko, they would have had the whole media on their heads, and that would qualify as a PR disaster.

As it stands, GOG is trying to minimize the damage, they are not "giving in" to "the horde", they are not "letting down" their employees (we do not know any details of what transpired between Linko and GOG), they simply do what has to be done in such awkward situation, in order to preserve their business, which is selling games.

If they lock threads like this, people get upset and complain or open other threads.
If they dont lock the thread, the controversial title keeps getting bumped and the unrest is fueled some more.
Thats why i wanted to take the political theory debate (which is something i like) to another thread but people didnt like the idea apparently.
Pages:
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36
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhy was the "Open Letter to GOG - The Linko90 Support Thread" thread locked? (535 posts)(535 posts)
(535 posts)