Yeah, he's a big boy now, talking in big words we don't understand. Want some ice cream?

Geez, then it was only one, guy, though I remembered two, definitely not going to waste time looking for it. So what about Neverwinters Area scaling, I tried to remove memories of that game as best as possible, but not because of any scaling.

Fenixp stop trolling, or least dont come whining again when you get insulted for it.

I love some ice cream. Does it involve chocolate in any way?

It is scaling. Level scaling specifically.
If the encounters are based on the level/power/number of the player characters, that is level scaling. If the encounters are based on the area, and not on the level/power/number of the players, that is area based (not necessarily scaling).

If done correctly, level scaling is an excellent mechanic. So far, jamotide has had some very bad encounters with level scaling, thus has declared all examples of level scaling to be evil, and any game using level scaling to be a shitty one, unless said scaling is not noticable.

And just to clarify, I don't remember encountering a second person posting that P&P doesn't use level scaling means that I remember noone, not that there may be someone but I don't remember him/her. Not sure how clear that is.

I don't know what all the yelling is about and this is not really the same thing, but I don't like games which try to auto-adjust the challenge for me, at least without asking me.

So I was fine with Spec Ops: The Line asking me every now and then whether I want to lower the difficulty, as it saw me dying on the same spot ten times. But it wouldn't have been ok if it had automatically made the enemies dumber and weaker for me so that I could continue with the game and not get angry. Like that stupid Sega Rally where the other cars slow down or speed up depending how well you drive.

Same for level scaling in CRPGs. For me the whole point of developing my skills in CRPGs is that I cope better in the game world. If the world around me auto-scales with me... why then should I try to improve my skills in the first place? Couldn't I just as well stay at level 1 all the time, fighting level 1 monsters all the way to the end? I presume it doesn't make it any more interesting to kill a rat with 10000 HP when each of my hits does 1000 points of damage, than the same rat with 10 HP when each of my blows does 1 HP damage. Same same.

The scaling NWN had meant that if you did everything the game allowed you to do, by chapter 3 (of 5 if I recall?) you would be overlevelled, so even though there was some item progression, there was no combat challenge anymore. As I said before, there were 3 lines of investigation you could take at each chapter, and you only had to complete 2 of those. If you completed only 2, you would be at an appropriate level, if you completed all 3, you would be overleveled.
So, end result? You get the new loot at the beginning of the chapter instead of the end, since you already meet both the money and level requirement, the enemies become trivial to defeat, and there is no challenge to the encounters anymore, nor is there any loot to gain (there may be one or two pieces, the rest you've already bought). Even the traps become non-lethal, since you can take the damage they deal and not be severely wounded.
If the game rolled the enemies at the beginning of the chapter, thus keeping them based on your level, you would be able to find new loot, you would be able to have some challenging encounters, and for some (including me) that would mean more fun. It wouldn't do anything for the story of course, but it would be a better game.

What if while on level 1 you fought rats, on level 5 you fought wolves, on level 10 you fought grizzly bears, and on level 15 you fought werewolves? What if the forest with the bandits had bandits of level 1-10, with a cap of level 10, but the dragon's cave had a dragon of level 20+, with a level between 20 and your own level?

Scaling only the HP of a monster is a lazy scale mechanic. Adjusting the encounters to the character level (encounter isn't the same as monster) would make the encounters non-trivial, which may or may not be to your liking.

Thats pretty shitty! But the solution should not be another mechanic that introduces other problems, like the ones below. Especially in a linear restricted game like tht this should be no problem at all without scaling. What does this have to do with area scaling anyway?

Excatly what it comes down to, yet this seems to be no problem for the scaling faction, they are more concerned about exploring the countryside.

Chapter 1 was scaled for levels 1-5. You had enough XP to reach level 6.5
Chapter 2 was scaled for levels 5-10. You had enough XP to reach level 13.
Chapter 3 was scaled for levels 10-15. You had enough XP to reach level 17.
Chapter 4 was scaled to levels 15-17. You had enough XP to reach level 20 (cap).
Chapter 5 was scaled for levels 17-20. You were already capped.

Isn't that area scaling (with each chapter being an area)? Isn't that a bad example of area scaling? Does that mean that all area scaling is bad? Wouldn't having a bit harder encounters be better?

Loads. Apparently, it's a trolling ice cream - a voice in my head told me so. I could definitely fetch you some topping with it as well.
You are oversimplifying the issue. There are games where scaling doesn't work both ways. There are games using mixed system of scaling and fixed areas. There are loads of approaches to this one issue, but the only one you are taking into consideration now is the Oblivion's way of doing things.
You know you've made those points like 4 times already.

Grinding? At least in a game with grinding you're still moving forward; with level scaling you're on a treadmill. Any progress is an illusion; you can only ever advance relative to how much the developers decided to let you. There is also the huge danger of designing a system that rewards poor players by making it possible to complete the game equally well at both level 10 and level 100 due to presenting odds that are challenging but never, ever entirely insurmountable. Oblivion is the ultimate example of this. Skyrim improves the scaling calculations but you're still treated like a child that can't stand to have his precious feelings hurt by facing challenges he can't take on right now after a minimal levelling investment.

Oblivion could be completed at level 2 (you only level up when sleeping; never sleep, never level). The scaling system was so fundamentally broken that gaining a level by using the wrong skills would result in the game getting harder than before that level up because enemies level in lock-step with the character's overall level; one common tactic was to exploit the system by setting rarely-used skills as the major skills so they level up the fastest; character level could only increase after a certain number of major skill level gains so this way the skills that were actually used most of the time would always be sufficiently improved prior to qualifying for a level gain.

About 30% of dungeons I have decided to visit in Skyrim were too hard for my level. As for the rest of your points, well, let's just take this:
Any progress is an illusion; you can only ever advance relative to how much the developers decided to let you.
That's precisely how I feel in games which use level barriers. I can only get where developers allow me to instead of making my own choices.

edit: Should I elaborate? Yeah, I think I'll elaborate. I actually do like the feeling of hitting an area that's too dangerous for my character to return back later on, much more powerful, able to tackle it. That's a feeling Skyrim gave me quite a lot - at the beginning, I was only capable of exploring some boring caves and, occasionally, a fortress. I didn't feel limited by this as the whole world was accessible to me, aside from some parts which made sense to be cut off (long forgotten tombs or ruins, that kind of stuff.) Cutting off the whole world never made much sense to me as guards were patrolling the roads all the time, and the world would be completely unrealistic if structured as ... Well, as that of, say, Gothic. However, I welcomed scaling in the outside areas because, even tho developers can't control where I go first, they could slowly give me new and new content regardless.

So there we have the best of two worlds - areas which cannot be accessed by low level characters and require you to get stronger, while not limiting you all that much in how do you play the game.

Depends on what you mean with "moving forward". I prefer that "moving forward" focuses on narrative progression, not about character progression. Again, the difference is what you are looking for in an RPG. I agree that Oblivion did it wrong, they overdid it. Skyrim is a step in the right direction, but yes, it is still problems here and there. But I think it is getting there, slowly. I am wondering what the next Elder Scrolls game will bring to the table.

When it comes to illusion... at least the illusion is better here than in the invisible level walls, or at least I feel so.

I am not sure what the problem is here. If a player is "poor" (i.e. not playing according to a particular style) should they also not have a game they enjoy? Should RPG's only be enjoyed by the "elite few" who has the time and inclination to sink 100+ hours into a game, playing it in a certain way? Why should a RPG force people to play in a particular style. I see only benefits here.

The same side of the coin - if I want to race through the main storyline of Skyrim and "finish" the game, should I not be allowed to do so, and then spend my next 90+ levels doing all the sidequest, if that is what I want to do?

Totally bonkers price point, any serious RP Gamer would have them already, plus they are cheaper individually everywhere else I would imagine.

When I first heard about level scaling I thought "It sounds really cool!", but then I played F3 and very early in the game I met Deathclaw, I've killed it with basic pistol and I was like "It only sounded cool..."

Now I don't like level scaling until some game will prove that it can be done well.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT LEVEL SCALING.

But yeah. They should really include Battlespire and Redguard. That'd add some actual value since those two aren't really available anywhere.