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Wishbone: No they were not. Your analogy was about delivering the same material in the same medium, leading to a similar experience. My analogy was about using the same material in a different medium, leading to a different experience. A guitar is not the same thing as a piece of music. A game is not the same thing as a video. A song however, is the same thing as a song.
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SirPrimalform: You're right, I was misunderstanding the purpose of your analogy. However, a guitar is a machine. It's simply not comparable to a game or a song.

Another flaw in your analogy is that the same song could be played on any number of different guitars. A Let's Play is very specific to the game it is about. It wouldn't be anything like the same thing with a different game.

I'm sorry, but it's just a terrible analogy.
Yes, good, fine. Screw the analogy. Did you understand my point?
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Neobr10: Terrible analogy.
Terrible criticism.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by Wishbone
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Wishbone: Also, do you really think that Let's Plays are lowering the number of game sales? I'm pretty sure it's raising it. It's free advertising for the games, unless of course the game sucks, but in that case chances are that not many people want to either make or watch Let's Plays of it.
But that's not the point, the point is that they're making money off someone else's work, which just isn't right.
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Wishbone: Also, do you really think that Let's Plays are lowering the number of game sales? I'm pretty sure it's raising it. It's free advertising for the games, unless of course the game sucks, but in that case chances are that not many people want to either make or watch Let's Plays of it.
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Neobr10: But that's not the point, the point is that they're making money off someone else's work, which just isn't right.
"Making money off of someone else's work" is a frequent justification for some pretty poorly thought out arguments. We have a metric fuckton of time honored American professions that do just the same, including much of entertainment journalism. There are people, in fact, who get paid to do nothing but analyze the work of a specific artist for Freya's sake! Furthermore, if people want to pay me because they think I'm hot shit when I race a Porsche around a track that doesn't entitle Porsche to that money even though one could argue more human effort, design, and expense went into that car than my use of it.

But if that doesn't sway you (and I suspect it won't) you should still watch that TotalBiscuit video Hessusio linked, because he effectively deconstructs the notion you're suggesting in a way that I cannot.

Nintendo is not only morally wrong on this one they're actually cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by orcishgamer
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stinusmeret: Going after LP'ers ad revenue is silly imho, since it'll lead to LESS exposure since the LP'ers will just move on to games they can monetize.
I count that as a net positive. If they are LPing the game because it will net them money or popularity they have no reason to be LPing it to begin with.
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stinusmeret: Going after LP'ers ad revenue is silly imho, since it'll lead to LESS exposure since the LP'ers will just move on to games they can monetize.
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Luisfius: I count that as a net positive. If they are LPing the game because it will net them money or popularity they have no reason to be LPing it to begin with.
Oh come on, do you really believe that people can't simultaneous love something AND make money at it? Those people need to fucking eat too and some of them spend a lot of money and time producing those shows. Sure, tons of them are utter shit, but those aren't the ones supporting themselves off the ad revenue either.
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Wishbone: Yes, good, fine. Screw the analogy. Did you understand my point?
Yes, but I don't agree entirely with it. There are some Let's Players who make a crapload of money from repackaging a game into the form of a video and adding commentary. Most of what their video is, is someone else's game.
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Luisfius: I count that as a net positive. If they are LPing the game because it will net them money or popularity they have no reason to be LPing it to begin with.
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orcishgamer: Oh come on, do you really believe that people can't simultaneous love something AND make money at it? Those people need to fucking eat too and some of them spend a lot of money and time producing those shows. Sure, tons of them are utter shit, but those aren't the ones supporting themselves off the ad revenue either.
No, I am not saying that it is mutually exclusive. But if the breaking point of an LP being made or NOT is the ad revenue, that person has no business doing it.

Also, your last statement is wrong, Pewdiepie is amazingly terrible at things and he IS supporting himself with the ad revenue.

On the other hand, I've said it before, but LP monetization is in my opinion the WORST thing that happened to it.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by Luisfius
Bad, bad PR decision. Not only will this harm Nintendo's reputation with video gamers, but it'll cut down their exposure online as no one will want to post videos, reviews, LP's, or any type of content about their material, and finally all it does is hurt people who support Nintendo.

I'm thinking primarily of someone like Chuggaconroy. He primarily plays Nintendo games, has a strict no-emulation policy which means he's gone to insane lengths to procure original materials, and has influenced many people (myself included) to check out Nintendo products I wouldn't have otherwise. So Nintendo's response to this support and good will by someone like Chugga...is to commercially ruin them, and take their finances?

There's so many better solutions. Nintendo could have set up a deal working with popular LP'ers, they could have found a split revenue system, they could have had agreements with popular channel owners to insert commericals on a mutually beneficial system, etc, etc.

Just bad short minded thinking.
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Hawk52: -A very good post-
How would this even benefit Nintendo in the long run? Youtube won't last forever, especially not if they leech it. Where would they go from there?
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Hawk52: There's so many better solutions. Nintendo could have set up a deal working with popular LP'ers, they could have found a split revenue system, they could have had agreements with popular channel owners to insert commericals on a mutually beneficial system, etc, etc.

Just bad short minded thinking.
They had an official LP for Xenoblade. They are already doing such things.
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Hawk52: -A very good post-
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Darvond: How would this even benefit Nintendo in the long run? Youtube won't last forever, especially not if they leech it. Where would they go from there?
The thing is, I don't think anyone wouldn't say Nintendo has some type of right to the content (although it's debatable if the game is the draw of a popular LP'er or the LP'er themselves -- I think it's a mixture of both). But this is just the wrong way to go about it and punishes people for supporting their business and removes free advertising for their products.

This move just reeks of a business decision with little foresight or long-term planning. They see revenue they feel entitled to, but don't see long-term ramifications or public relations impact as a result. And let's be honest; Nintendo needs the positive PR at this point.
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orcishgamer: Oh come on, do you really believe that people can't simultaneous love something AND make money at it? Those people need to fucking eat too and some of them spend a lot of money and time producing those shows. Sure, tons of them are utter shit, but those aren't the ones supporting themselves off the ad revenue either.
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Luisfius: No, I am not saying that it is mutually exclusive. But if the breaking point of an LP being made or NOT is the ad revenue, that person has no business doing it.

Also, your last statement is wrong, Pewdiepie is amazingly terrible at things and he IS supporting himself with the ad revenue.

On the other hand, I've said it before, but LP monetization is in my opinion the WORST thing that happened to it.
Because having better cameras, software and equipment must always lead to a worse product?

Seriously, it's a pretty nonsensical argument. In fact it sounds downright damn hipster, "Oh they make money with their band, fuck them, they seriously sold out and don't 'get' music!"

Yes, the breaking point for some people is money, because money buys free time and resources to actually do it in the first place. I think there's room in the world for LPs that aren't created with a handheld camera phone.
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Hawk52: There's so many better solutions. Nintendo could have set up a deal working with popular LP'ers, they could have found a split revenue system, they could have had agreements with popular channel owners to insert commericals on a mutually beneficial system, etc, etc.

Just bad short minded thinking.
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Luisfius: They had an official LP for Xenoblade. They are already doing such things.
And press releases about video games are the only reviews we need... amirite?
Post edited May 17, 2013 by orcishgamer
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Wishbone: Terrible criticism.
Other posters have already expressed how flawed your analogy is much better than i could. I don't have to repeat the same things. But i can quote them if you wish.
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Hawk52: There's so many better solutions. Nintendo could have set up a deal working with popular LP'ers, they could have found a split revenue system, they could have had agreements with popular channel owners to insert commericals on a mutually beneficial system, etc, etc.
Trying to pursue such a business model - which to the best of my knowledge doesn't exist anywhere else on YouTube, except perhaps for cases where everything was planned well in advance - could easily have had an even worse publicity impact, because no one else has made such requirements. If someone doesn't want to abide by those terms, then *he* will be made out as a victim, and it will seem like he's being singled out. Even if you simply offer to sponsor LPs without any additional demands on the LPer, there is at least a *perceived* problem with some of the other stuff that's out there, and that wouldn't be affected by this anyway.

By making a broad sweep (which is what Content ID-based flagging is), they're at least still able to later come out and claim that it was all an honest mistake, and they didn't realize the true impact of what they were doing.

Whether or not that will actually happen - well, we will have to wait and see, but I don't think it will take that long.
Post edited May 17, 2013 by Pidgeot
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Luisfius: No, I am not saying that it is mutually exclusive. But if the breaking point of an LP being made or NOT is the ad revenue, that person has no business doing it.

Also, your last statement is wrong, Pewdiepie is amazingly terrible at things and he IS supporting himself with the ad revenue.

On the other hand, I've said it before, but LP monetization is in my opinion the WORST thing that happened to it.
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orcishgamer: Because having better cameras, software and equipment must always lead to a worse product?

Seriously, it's a pretty nonsensical argument. In fact it sounds downright damn hipster, "Oh they make money with their band, fuck them, they seriously sold out and don't 'get' music!"

Yes, the breaking point for some people is money, because money buys free time and resources to actually do it in the first place. I think there's room in the world for LPs that aren't created with a handheld camera phone.
Nope. Having better stuff does not lead to worse product, but LP monetization HAS lead to worse results. COnsiderably worse. The examples I've given (Research Indicates's Trespasser LP http://lparchive.org/Jurassic-Park-Trespasser/ ), Geop's Ass Creed stuff (http://lparchive.org/Assassins-Creed/ sequel also archived), DocFuture's Sonic 2 Special Edition (seriously, take a look at it http://lparchive.org/Sonic-2-Special-Edition/ ) were really high quality LPs not done with the intention of getting paid. They have better production values than pretty much every single youtube LP done expressly to just get paid and into an affiliate program. It is not just a matter of OMG THEY SOULD OUT. You don't even need super expensive software to capture crap. Fraps, Camstudio, free codecs.

LPing with a camera is genrally bad, but there are exceptions (for example, this pre-youtube monetization LP of the Ouendan games, clever staging of it makes it VERY watchable http://lparchive.org/Osu-Tatakae-Ouendan/ ) though there have been exceptions (Psychedelic Eyeball and Cybershell parodying that, and Cybershell's Half Life thing.)

Again, my main beef is with LPs where the focus is to get popular just to get paid. I want the LPs to be about the damn games, or to do something INTERESTING with it.