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rojimboo: Didn't really reply to the question...
Technically it was still a reply...that said:

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rojimboo: What did Tuvok being black add to the story?
That's just it.....I don't recall it ever being a focal point in the show....he was just there and acting like any other person/alien/etc.

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rojimboo: Is the real reason you didn't mind Tuvok being black that he didn't actually displace a white guy for the role?
No, though as an aside(full disclosure): I find the displacing of any person for another to achieve some diverse casting quota to be....for lack of a better word....a dumb move.

(And that includes replacing blacks or other minorities with whites, or replacing lgbt with straight people)

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rojimboo: I'm still amazed how someone can be so averse to explaining himself after using something as an argument 5 times.
I said before: I somewhat don't fully trust you to be open minded enough to consider my stances, and otherwise feel it a waste of time to go too in depth on this topic(well beyond short replies like this, maybe).

(Also i'm not so good explaining what I mean and it would take far too long for me to write down everything you want to know and get all related info)
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babark: Are minorities more easily influenced?
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GameRager: I said easily influenced people from ALL groups(I am going to hazard a guess that there are easily influenced people in any group of people).
Right, sorry, I guess I was confused, because you kept using the comparison of children (specifically mentioned as an 'easily influenced group').

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GameRager: They knew it...they just mainly(iirc) put more white people in games because that was(I believe) the biggest demographic of game players back then.
So now that white people are not the biggest demographic of game players, instead of pandering to JUST them, game companies can pander to everyone, and everyone can give them their money, and feel represented. Yay capitalism!
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GameRager: ...
Still nothing, no reply to 'what are the right reasons to include diversity in your entertainment good'.

I've stopped asking, and can comfortably say, you were full of it.

Thank you, good bye

(I should have listened to myself in the beginning and never started conversing with you, seeing as how you argue in bad faith and can't even reply to a question on what you said 5 times)
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LootHunter: Because you didn't really ask the question.
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rojimboo: These are the 4 questions I asked - all related to each other, and all you could answer with a sentence or two to clarify your position.

1. So you're saying there's a direct correlation between including diversity as 'developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists' and quality of the product?

2. They made an inferior quality product because they included diversity in their story?

3. They wasted too many resources writing a black guy in, instead of a white guy, making the rest of the game worse?

4. How does that make sense?
And I gave you an answer - it depends on the context. Mostly on what do you mean by "diversity". Define "diversity" and you'll get another answer.
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babark: So now that white people are not the biggest demographic of game players, instead of pandering to JUST them, game companies can pander to everyone, and everyone can give them their money, and feel represented. Yay capitalism!
Or they could make a good product that doesn't relay on such tricks to sell units.....that would work as well(of course if they can do both, and if done right that's fine as well, but they shouldn't imo try to lure people to buy because someone that looks like them is in the product).
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rojimboo: These are the 4 questions I asked - all related to each other, and all you could answer with a sentence or two to clarify your position.

1. So you're saying there's a direct correlation between including diversity as 'developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists' and quality of the product?

2. They made an inferior quality product because they included diversity in their story?

3. They wasted too many resources writing a black guy in, instead of a white guy, making the rest of the game worse?

4. How does that make sense?
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LootHunter: And I gave you an answer - it depends on the context. Mostly on what do you mean by "diversity". Define "diversity" and you'll get another answer.
This is what you said, to which I replied with some questions:
Most people, like the ones that are disparaged by the games like Last of Us Part 2, Battlefield V or Mass Effect: Andromeda have problems with poor quality of the product. Which in turn suffers because developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists instead of actually trying to make a quality product.
I asked a few clarifying questions, because it sure seems like you think 'quality of the product' 'suffers because developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists' and include diversity in their product.

If you wanna take it all back, or start going on about context, then please do so. Because ^ that is the current context when you were saying those things.
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rojimboo: Still nothing, no reply to 'what are the right reasons to include diversity in your entertainment good'.

I've stopped asking, and can comfortably say, you were full of it.
That's because you likely were never trying to consider my POV in the first place.

Imo you are/were just asking such things to appear open minded so you can keep tossing aside my stances and validating/promoting your own(and wasting my time in the process).

I tried to debate in good faith, btw, but the way you debate those you disagree with made continuing on undesirable(if you want to blame someone for me cutting my losses and moving on, then maybe look inward at yourself a bit).

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rojimboo: Thank you, good bye

(I should have listened to myself in the beginning and never started conversing with you, seeing as how you argue in bad faith and can't even reply to a question on what you said 5 times)
The fact that YOU are saying I argue in bad faith.....dunno what to say to that but: o.0
Post edited May 30, 2020 by GameRager
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babark: So now that white people are not the biggest demographic of game players, instead of pandering to JUST them, game companies can pander to everyone, and everyone can give them their money, and feel represented. Yay capitalism!
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GameRager: Or they could make a good product that doesn't relay on such tricks to sell units....
Why? They're a profit-driven company. They want to make money. They can do whatever they want, and if it earns them money, they'll take that as the lesson. If they did it 20-30 years ago when they assumed the main audience was white males, they can do it now when the audience is more diverse. How is pandering to that group back then worse than pandering to other groups now?
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yea agree...can't argue with billboards screaming their satanic messages of lust and insecurity
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GameRager: I tried to debate in good faith, btw, but the way you debate those you disagree with made continuing on undesirable(if you want to blame someone for me cutting my losses and moving on, then maybe look inward at yourself a bit).
How convenient you decided to cut your losses and move on, at exactly the time you could not answer a simple question regarding your argument that you re-iterated no less than 5 times.

And if you purposefully dodged a question like that in order to not appear to 'lose' a debate, or lose face, or lose whatever semblance of an argument you thought you had, then no. That's not 'trying to debate in good faith'. More like the opposite.

Most people, like the ones that are disparaged by the games like Last of Us Part 2, Battlefield V or Mass Effect: Andromeda have problems with poor quality of the product. Which in turn suffers because developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists instead of actually trying to make a quality product.
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rojimboo: I asked a few clarifying questions, because it sure seems like you think 'quality of the product' 'suffers because developers seek to please agenda-pushing pseudo-journalists' and include diversity in their product.

If you wanna take it all back, or start going on about context, then please do so. Because ^ that is the current context when you were saying those things.
Ok. In Battlefield V the context was Nazi army. So yes, writing black people in nazi army takes quite a bit of resource to make players believe in that.
Andromeda was bad because game quality simply wasn't a priority. Priority was to satisfy "game journalists". Do you know what new content was added through patches while the game still lasted? Gay romances. Not new planets, interesting quests or fixing atrocious face animation. Gay romances.
And as for The Last of Us Part 2 - devs invited Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant. Nuff said.
If you life without context then it is hard too state anything. It is a given fact that in the world we live nowadays developers have shifting concerns where they both will need to satisfy the need for new technical challenges provide an interesting sometimes shocking story without hurting the shattered ones who finally found a voice
Post edited May 30, 2020 by Radiance1979
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LootHunter: Ok. In Battlefield V the context was Nazi army. So yes, writing black people in nazi army takes quite a bit of resource to make players believe in that.
Andromeda was bad because game quality simply wasn't a priority. Priority was to satisfy "game journalists". Do you know what new content was added through patches while the game still lasted? Gay romances. Not new planets, interesting quests or fixing atrocious face animation. Gay romances.
And as for The Last of Us Part 2 - devs invited Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant. Nuff said.
So you *are* saying that including diversity in entertainment goods means lower quality vidya games and movies?

Huh.

Apparently adding much requested extra content (romances) for ME: Andromeda angered you.
Apparently a fictional retelling story of Nazi's angered you.
Apparently the mere mention of Anita Sarkeesian angered you.

But what about all the other critically acclaimed games and movies that included diversity? No mention of them? Could it be that you just cherrypicked some recent examples, examples of games that clearly had other problems if they didn't even include diversity?

Very few scoff at the ME trilogy that came before Andromeda, very few scoff at Dragon Age Origins, very few scoff at Obsidian games, etc etc ad nauseaum solely in vidya gaming, for their diversity and inclusion of minorities, racial, gender or sexual orientation.

Could it be that there's no actual correlation between the quality of the entertainment good and the inclusion of diversity?

Hm.
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LootHunter: Ok. In Battlefield V the context was Nazi army. So yes, writing black people in nazi army takes quite a bit of resource to make players believe in that.
Andromeda was bad because game quality simply wasn't a priority. Priority was to satisfy "game journalists". Do you know what new content was added through patches while the game still lasted? Gay romances. Not new planets, interesting quests or fixing atrocious face animation. Gay romances.
And as for The Last of Us Part 2 - devs invited Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant. Nuff said.
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rojimboo: So you *are* saying that including diversity in entertainment goods means lower quality vidya games and movies?

Huh.

Apparently adding much requested extra content (romances) for ME: Andromeda angered you.
Apparently a fictional retelling story of Nazi's angered you.
Apparently the mere mention of Anita Sarkeesian angered you.

But what about all the other critically acclaimed games and movies that included diversity? No mention of them? Could it be that you just cherrypicked some recent examples, examples of games that clearly had other problems if they didn't even include diversity?
I never said that problems were because of diversity. You said that. And when I asked you to clarify what did you mean by "diversity", you've said that "diversity" means agenda that devs of Battlefield V, ME: Andromeda and The Last of US 2 were pushing to pleased "pseudo-journalists". So, I've answered you what it was about.

If you've found logical inconsistency then it's because YOU haven't asked question correctly.
Post edited May 30, 2020 by LootHunter
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LootHunter: I never said that problems were because of diversity. You said that.
Hey dude, I'm not trying to catch you into a 'look at this prejudist bigot hater' kind of accusation.

I'm just trying to figure out what it is that you are saying, because it seems contradictory for your every other comment.