And thus you devalue the rewards.

Go, play Symphony of the Night and fight Venus Weed.

Dude! Sex as theme was part of vampire fiction since Stoker. Maybe even Carmilla (haven't read).

WUT?!

Whatever. You are as hypocritical as dtgreene.

Still XP, with more complexity thrown in. Even that complexity is not too bad of an idea, depending on how wildly things vary. Or killed? Now that's an entertaining system. Unconventional isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, really. What matters is whether the system that is the replacement is better or worse than the system it replaces (although that's, mostly, subjective).

WOw, did we ever derail this thing....
Make better rewards. It's not like video game equipment, currency, etc are bound by real world rules. Sex has been a part of general movies since... Who the hell knows how long, yet we don't sit down and expect pornos in disney movies, or really anything other than the lowest of horror movies. I know that the bronie community has sexualities the ponies, but I don't expect to find sex officially in MLP. I don't expect Thomas the Tank Engine to get violent, either, despite all the amazing meme mods. And who the hell saw Friendships in Mortal Kombat comming? While bugs are in every food plant, do you expect to find spiders in your gummy bears? How about your Deoderant? Sex in products has always been Taboo, which is also why the game doesn't actually show the sex itself. But, hey, lemme know how your crickets in your Starbucks tastes. "No! You!" Feel free to continue projecting. You've not demonstrated any hypocrisy on my part, but instead your own. Please do some self-analysis.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that sex in video games has been more taboo than sex in movies, too, and still is, and that rule extends beyond just the US.

And that's exactly what devs do. But you claim that if a reward is exclusive to a mini-game, it's bad.

Yes, because they are not M-rated. Castlevania too, btw.

Again, romance and sex (however without graphic depiction due to technical limitations) already were in RPGs, for example in Arcanum. Are you saying that you wouldn't expect romance and sex in the game in the same genre and from the same company?
Dude! Have you read Dracula?

Beyond US, ra-a-aight. Why Fire Emblem Fates petting mini-game was in Japan version then?

Because Japan is not representative of the rest of the world? Moreover, that's still sexualization but not necessarily sex. We woulkdn't call a woman with a low-cut top a walking sex-scene, but would certainly define that as sexualization. The same thing can be said of make-up in general or certain other clothing choices, yet this is not engaging in the act of sex.

Oddly enough, Japan is also far, far more consistent with movies and games standards: they both have to follow the same rules.

Or maybe it's US that is not representative of the rest of the world? ;)

Which makes censorship of that minigame in the US an indication of an even more puritanical and sanctimonious mindset.

All that is a topic for another thread. Your counter argument, however, to my VtmB example is that i "should've known better" more or less, about a game that was created and publish in the US.

I'll just say that those descriptors are there for a reason when someone can so easily be offended.
Well, it was meant to be a daytime soap sort of thing. Considering that, turned out well enough. (Actually watched it shortly after playing Bloodlines, just because I was looking for WoD stuff.)

But yes, this has nothing to do with the thread. So, anyone getting back to minigames? :))

You mean the ESRB logo? Actual sex, however, usually classifies as AO. Moreover, sexual themes has also been very liberally applied. citation

For ESRB, to qualify for that, the Malkavian outfits would pass, not unlike the bottom left image. And for comparison, The Witcher's sexual content was on par, and managed to recieve this label while VtMB did not. While i obviously wouldn't hold ESRB as some sort of end-all-be-all authority to trust on this, i think it's reasonable to complain that the game was indeed mislabled. This spawned from the hypocrisy claim and a more generalized argument than just minigames, so while it's a bit of a tangent, it is still relatively on topic. And to bring us back to the topic properly with this "branch" (while understanding other branches exist that have strayed less), I do believe i've adequalted explained the following sequence (implicit "therefore" preceeding 2 and beyond):

1. I did not have a reasonable expectation that VtMB would not have sexually explicit content (that was straight, and I am straight).

2. My point about someone being offended by a game with unexpected sexual content is somewhat likely (and my other points about this also stand).

3. There would indeed reasonably be straight people who would be offended by even straight sexual content in a video game (Thanks for trying, Mafwek, since i know you clearly have a personal issue involved here).

4. Sexual scenes are not necessarily a pleasurable experience if potential is unannounced prior to purchase, often particularly unpleasurable when rejected.

5. A forced sex scene (or optional sex scene minigame for some kind of exclusive reward of equipment, companion, etc) is reasonable for condemnation and expectation of non-entertainment.

6. Such is not entertainment, which is crucial for good game design.

7. Such a feature (or minigame) is and example of bad game design (but since it is not the entirety of the game design, this does not automatically make a game bad).

8. We have the right to complain unpleasurable experiences such as rewards being exclusively trapped behind minigames in a video game (Nice try, LootHunter, try not to be Mafwek and bring personal vendettas into these more peaceful discussions).

Obviously i could probably save some time and move 8 into 5 and stop it there (or just leave it go, but what's the fun in that when someone is trying to claim this thread effectively shouldn't exist?).

(Hopefully this is as logically sound as my very sleepy brain sees it.)

Prude, sex sells. Sex sells so much that they're putting sex scenes into children's movies. If you have a problem with sex, then you're the problem.

Not every game is designed to be fun.

I could, for example, cite Desert Bus, which is designed to be boring, but also designed so that you can't AFK clear it (the bus constantly drifts, and you have to correct for that). Worth noting that Desert Bus is, itself, a minigame.

Takeshi no Chōsenjō contains intentionally unfun minigames, since the game was intentionally designed to not be fun.

Triple Triad can break the whole game. I always end up with a totally overpowered low level party (when you turn enemies into cards, your GF will get AP, but you don't get any EXP), as soon as I get Diablos. Why? Because of the Junction system and some GF abilities, like Card Mod or the Refine abilities.

When you know where to get some important cards, how to change the rules to something you want and where there are good players (especially the one in the harbour of Balamb), you'll collect cards that you can turn into powerful spells. And, thanks to the Junction system, powerful spells will give your stats a good boost.

I always have to be super careful in boss fights. I have to heal bosses while I'm trying to "mug" (steal + attack) their items. One character is trying to steal stuff and the other two are there to heal the boss, just in case the HP become critical before I got the item I wanted. I LOVED Blitzball. Until my free time for gaming became less and less. Having to play Blitzball A LOT to get all of Wakka's Reels and his fully unlocked best weapon... I just don't have the patience for that anymore.

Luckily I know a way to break the AI of the computer controlled players. There's a place in the stadium where you can swim back and forth for the whole game, without ever getting attacked by one of the other players. You can see their triangle markers on the mini map rotating, but they never leave their position. The only difficulty: Enemy players can't be too close to your player who's going to swim on that spot. So your midfield player has to go towards the enemy's goal and then throw a loooooong pass back to one of your defenders. This'll give them enough time to reach that spot.

Half a minute before the game is over, you make one run on the goal (two quick passes to reach Tidus), get the two defending players infront of you (I always wait for them right at their goal) and win the match with a "Jecht Shot". This saves a lot of time for animations and thinking about where to throw that pass and how to get through two defendng players and all that stuff.

Your players won't advance in their levels, because all they get to do is to rotate on their starting position and throw two passes xP You can basically keep the original Auroch players (which you shouldn't when you want to play Blitzball) and still win every match 2:0. I always beat the Luca Goers in the finals on the first try with this trick.

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These two were my absolute favourite mini games. No, wait that's wrong! I loved the snowboard mini game in Final Fantasy VII, too. I've spent hours trying to improve my time just a little bit.

Yeah, they're even having sex with the children in the moves off camera. Eventually they'll just leave those scenes in, so we have that to look forward to.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's just fine, but people should know what they're getting into.

I don't know about desert bus, but mention of "たけし" immediately triggers obvious red flags for me. For those who want to know more, click here.

And if you needed a nice visual representation 'cause reading is no fun, click here! Now we all know that the english version wasn't his work, but keep in mind here's the original Japanese so you can get a decent visual comparison. Skip to about 26:46 to see a good representation of the show.

Keeping that in mind, i don't believe he would've considered that game good game design. Intead, that seems to be precisely the point of the game, and I'm not familiar with the precise context, but I imagine it was created in response to something... I wonder if this had something to do with it. If you really want to understand, just google translate the Japanese wikipeda article on the game, beacuse the article's much better. Obviously, the developers of the game really, really didn't think the game's design was good game design, either. Clearly, Takeshi wasnted the game to be bad, although not quite as bad as it became. Still not sure what actually motivated this desire instead of actually making a game that was meant to simply be funny with good game design.

However, this game is a classic example of a game designed to be fun by being unfun. While I would like to imagine this came in response to someone saying "games should be more lifelike" or "video games don't teach people life skills" or other comments along those lines, there isn't actually any evidence to support that that i can find. However, it still certainly looks that way given the themes of the game.

Got more information on this? 'Cause i absolutely hated blitzball. I used to hate the spheregrid more, but it's kinda warmed up on me lately., so at this point i think blitzball is the worst part of FFX. I'd rather listen to Tidus' laugh for that duration.

I absolutely loved the dice poker in the first two Witcher games, especially the first one. I did basically the whole set of quests whenever I could and find it a genuinely good game on its own. By contrast, I cannot stand Gwent and think it's one of the bigger faults in the third game.

Get the ball to your player in the center of the map and swim towards the enemy's goal (players of the other team will follow you). When a player of the other team comes too close, throw a very long pass to one of your two defenders. They (and your goal keeper) are probably the only players in your half of the field. When you get the ball IMMEDIATELY swim towards your own goal. Swim right into it until you hit the invisible level wall. Now start swimming up and down (again and again and again), hugging that level wall. Every other player on the field will freeze in their position and start to rotate (at least that's what the triangles on the mini map do). As long as you move (along the wall on the side of your own goal), you're safe. If you stop moving, everyone will start to act normal again.

Just swim up and down until there's almost no time left. Get the ball to Tidus and score a point with Jecht shot. It's a guaranteed score when you have two defending players in front of you (Jecht shot has a special mechanic that'll make it much stronger then) and aren't that far away from the goal.

You still have to watch the timer going down, but every game becomes a victory without any effort. And you save a lot of time, because there are no breaks to give any commands.