The TOEE video game was based off a very old module, which it very accurately copies. It's hard to request a game "done right", when it already covers the original faithfully.

It sounds like what you want is just the mechanics of TOEE, so maybe what you're really after is a D20 game? If so, there are several out there, though not identical to TOEE obviously. Kotor 1 and 2 use the d20 system. Neverwinter nights does as well. Also, in case you don't know, the circle of eight mod and temple+ mod both flesh out toee with extra stuff, including raising the level cap to 20. Spells not so much.

Except that it uses a different ruleset.

There's at least one case where the rules have an interaction that might be somewhat broken:
* There's a certain weapon in the module that, under the right circumstance, will always hit.
* There is a feat that gives you a bonus to damage, but the cost is a penalty to hit, so there's a real trade-off here.
* Combine the two, however, and you can get the maximum damage bonus from the feat, but since you automatically hit, the drawback is moot.

Hmm.

Apparently I have to repeat all the points made in my posting ?

No I didnt like anything else about TToEE.

The main story was dull, you traveled to a dungeon and did that dungeon. That was all. Granted, the BG1 and BG2 main stories are also nothing to write home about, but they've been decorated with endless sidequests and you had to do many quests to do the main quest, too. Nothing of this sort was in TToEE.

The party NPCs sucked in every way. No sidequests. No personality. Amazingly poor stats. In fact many stole resources I wanted to use for the good of the party, such as one mage who would hog all scrolls you ever came across. In the end I just made my own five pawn party and showed all these NPCs the middle finger.

The interface was a PITA. For example I lost many battles simply because I wanted to move a character to a place in which a corpse was located, and the character would always lose their action because they started looting that corpse. The interface offered no option to avoid that. Really dumb.



But what I DID like was the pretty complete implementation of D&D3. There was a fighter class that could get extra feats. There has been a lot of feats to choose from. The game also had all kinds of more advanced features that you would never know about if you only knew Infinity Engine games, i.e. Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, or Planescape: Torment. Like delay, which allowed you to group everyone together and do actions in any kind of order during a turn. In BG3 you can only do that if you're lucky you get lumped together by the RNG.

All that would not be present in a d20 game either, so I have no clue why anyone thinks that would solve anything. I know d20 games and they stay far behind BG3, too.

The game of my dreams...

I would have a huge, post-apocalyptic city filled with zombies. You could enter any building and any floor of it and loot like crazy. Occasionally you would kill some zombies and then go back to exploring this big open world. Sort of like Dying Light, just bigger, more open world and with a good save feature. You could craft useful things with all the stuff you collected and speak to a´handful remaining survivors who give you quests. The game would be in first-person of course. That would be my dream game!

True but....I don't see the relevance? The game wasn't meant to be a 100% accurate adaptation using 1e rules. It used 3e rules, which was what gamers of the time would be playing, so would be most familiar with. Just like BG3 is using... 5e rules?

As to the sword (there are actually two), there will always be features in rules that can be abused to OP situations, and most every video game includes things that also make characters OP, independent of the rules. How many games give you spells or weapons near the end that are 10x better than what you've had before?


Well, they didn't "steal" resources... that was their fee for working with you, their share of the loot. Spugnoir said he would join in return for all the scrolls you find. In return, you got companions that started past 1st level. As you said, people could skip them and make their own party. IIRC doing moves through the action wheel instead of click-moving can avoid that, though I'm not sure of that.

In any case I only suggested d20 games since you seemed to like the rules and not the gameplay of toee itself. Good luck in your search.

My "dream game?"

An EGA version of Return to Monkey Island. Or a VGA one with hand-drawn graphics like Lechuck's Revenge. Yeah, that's my dream game.

Jazz Jackrabbit 3D.

Why yes I'm aware that these NPCs would tell you upfront what they would take. Funny, my own NPCs wouldnt take anything, and their "share of the loot" would actually be available to improve their gear, so they didnt get any share, despite being a hella lot more useful.

And I'm not 100% sure if I remember this correctly, but I think at least one of these NPCs would wear an armor that you couldnt make him undress, so he would always wear this stinking poor armor no matter what to the very end, too.

Also, again, the stats of these NPCs have been absolute garbage in most cases (theres at least one really OP one later though, who wouldnt even take anything from the party loot either, but who came with its own baggage, so you would have had to plan exactly how to get him and well I only played the game once and didnt properly plan on how to pick him up), and they had no personality or sidequests or anything.

Worst NPCs possible. Why would ever want them ?

By the way if they died, the stuff they took would still be gone. Where did it go ?!? Uh, whatever.

And they stole A LOT.

Like if you had the mage you could have no own mage, and your sorcerer couldnt have any spell scrolls, ever, either, because of course this mage could also not scribe scrolls either, neither for his own use nor for the use of others.

Maybe there is not much of a point to argue about TToEE though. It wasnt a good game by really almost every metric, except the combat itself with its many options. Especially on the first five levels I died a lot, and came very often close to death, before I found working strategies. Wished more games would challenge you like that.

This was probably partly because I was limited to five peeps, max, and the game was balanced for its maximum party size of 8. It only allowed you to premake five peeps though, the rest would have to be these awful NPCs, and nooo thanks, I'm good.

[Deleted]

AI doesnt get "better" though.

Sure, you can give more hardware power to AI.

But thats all improvement thats possible; the core principles stand as they've been since the invention of neural networks in the 1950s.

Wrong thread? I think there's an untapped market in a (preferably non-violent) game with cutting-edge AI as a central feature. Modders have equipped their NPC companions in Skyrim with a wicked sense of humor via voice-interactive AI; that could make most walking simulators several times more interesting.

there had to be made quite some action before posting...... i will instantly believe tho if you use terms such as distorted or unbalanced

My posting answered the posting directly preceeding it, so I saw no need to quote it.

And I didnt argue what AI can do, I pointed out that the previous poster called for an improvement of AI and I told him that the very foundation of neural networks have been defined already in the late 1950s and nothing has changed about it ever since.

All that happened since was faster hardware.


P.s.: Oh, and of course also much more memory, too.

Shadow Gambit 2

Jazz Jackrabbit 3D,Unreal Tournament 4.