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Tarm: It's kinda hard to discuss on some steam community "forums" so I thought I'd say argue since that I think is a better description of "discussions" going on in there...
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OneFiercePuppy: Right? Even "argue" is a kind of hopeful term. The Steam Community forums are basically an amalgamation of seventy million monologues [url= each one written by a different, distempered badger ][/url]shouted as loudly as possible.
Depends on the forum. I mostly hang out in strategy games forums. Turnbased or less standard RTS heavy ones. They're not bad overall.
I think this happened on a shooter or RTS clickfest forum.

Edit: I'm getting irritated on myself. The steam community ain't a standard forum. I miss when all steam related discussions, and I do mean discussions was on the proper steam forums.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by Tarm
*sigh*

Good ol' game consoles FTW!
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Reever: *sigh*

Good ol' game consoles FTW!
Right...what the fuck has that got to do with anything?

Or is this going to be yet another one of those rants that keeps popping up of late where it is declared that "impure console blood" is "corrupting" the "aryan PC master race"?
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IanM: This thread has derailed into something very silly. Is it possible that everyone could accept that there is:

- total crap that was knocked together by 1-2 artists on a lazy Friday afternoon after a long lunch in the pub, which is then sold to morons whilst managers and producers laugh at the idiots who will buy anything.

- deep content that was made by complete development team over many months, which is then priced fairly vs the cost of the original game, satisfying gamers for the added entertainment and developers for a job well done.

- a whole lot of shades of grey in between, where personal taste and personal economic circumstances significantly skew the perception of value.

Do we really need some argument over whether to call something DLC or expansion pack? Label this stuff however you like, I'll stick to conscientiously avoiding the rip off crap and may occasionally buy content that I am convinced has some genuine value at a price I'm willing to pay.
Very well said, couldn't agree more. +1
Such statement from Ubisoft is just making me even more determined NOT to buy their games. I don't think i have the word 'idiot' stamped on my back :p

The only exception for Ubisoft as far as I'm concerned is gog, else they can fly a kite - same old story.
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johnnygoging: you basically just did the same thing he did. just a little more intelligently done I suppose. you banged on your keyboard and what came out had spurious relevancy.
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Vestin: I simply tried to preempt any moot discussion by providing a brief overview of the issues on a more general level.
Your reluctant respect has been noted.

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johnnygoging: yes, there is a distinction between "DLC" and "Expansion Pack".
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Vestin: See... You have the luxury of making such a statement without proof. On an intuitive level you may feel that this is "true", and you may even at times be right... Now is not one of those times.
You can be (trivially) right when everyone agrees with the definitions you are using. When there is disagreement, you lose your footing. Do you think words mean anything other than what people understand them to mean? If not, and people disagree on how to understand terms, you can't just arbitrarily decide "THIS is the truth, I am right, everyone who understands the word differently is simply wrong".

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johnnygoging: (...) mostly negative (...) value (...) horribly skewed (...) content-pusher, while expansion packs (...) worthy (...) sometimes.
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Vestin: Was that a declaration of faith, or were you trying to make a point? Soaking words in emotional rather than intellectual content is an absolutely natural, common thing, but come on...

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HijacK: I've been trying to explain to people for a while that extra content distributed via an online platform is always classified as DLC because it is downloaded.
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Vestin: While this does make sense, you can't really tell people how they should understand words ;P. A guinea pig isn't really a pig, GOG isn't JUST G.O.G. anymore, etc...
okay vestin. fine.

there is no distinction between DLC and an expansion pack, because, as long as they're both delivered in digital, downloadable form, they are both on technicality, which is the most important thing here clearly, the same thing.

in having a general discussion about the differences between DLC and expansion packs, their economic and cultural consequences, we should all feel ashamed for having it, and doubly ashamed of the fact that not one of us once mentioned the SI unit for enjoyment, or tried to use it as part of a thread for submission of formulae to determine exactly where the difference between DLC and expansion packs exactly is.

and I'm not sure what you mean by "reluctant respect", but if I'm getting that properly, don't come down on me for being a bit snarky as you had just referred to his post as a masterpiece, right before you went did the exact same thing he did.
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jamyskis: Right...what the fuck has that got to do with anything?

Or is this going to be yet another one of those rants that keeps popping up of late where it is declared that "impure console blood" is "corrupting" the "aryan PC master race"?
Wooooow, now, hold your horsies, partner!
That sort of perk would have been freely accessible through cheat codes in previous generations, and it's not hard to imagine the uproar charging for them would have caused in the early days of the last generation of systems.
This was what I was refering to. I ain't got no trouble with console/PC feuds, so let me out of it :D
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johnnygoging: (...) a general discussion about the differences between DLC and expansion packs (...)
Imagine someone asking for the difference between vampires and zombies. Unless we figure out whether the vampires are from Dracula, Twilight, or Vampire: the Mascarade (and the zombies from Romero movies, Left4Dead, etc) WE CANNOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. We do not know the difference not because we are stupid, but because we're not all sure we're on the same page. Once we all agree on what constitutes "a vampire" and "a zombie", enumerating the differences becomes TRIVIAL.
In the same vein - we cannot say what the difference is between DLC and expansion packs, addons, etc... unless we first agree on what we understand these terms to mean.
For instance - what is "HoMaM 3: Shadow of Death"? It's referred to as a "stand-along expansion pack", is relatively big, can be downloaded, doesn't require the base game. Is it DLC because it can be downloaded, an expansion pack because it is big, both because of these reasons, or neither because it can be installed separately? No matter the answer, everyone in a given discussion should agree on the assignment, as they should with any other title given; Otherwise even quite arbitrary preferences will be difficult to convey.
Imagine trying to discuss cats and dogs with people who have different opinions on which is which and what separates one from another. It's silly and pointless. With that being said - we can always focus on things in particular: "I don't care if you call THIS a cat or a dog - it's adorable", one might reasonably say. Similarly - giving examples - it is absolutely possible to say "this is nice" / "this isn't nice"... What cannot follow is "...therefore all X are not nice".
Some people here seem to dislike cheap things which give little stuff and are optional. Most probably don't like expensive things that give little stuff and are mandatory... Often enough it seems to come down to price, which is a simple thing to discuss - some find X too expensive, a few might find Y too cheap (yeah, right ;)...

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johnnygoging: and I'm not sure what you mean by "reluctant respect"
You've mentioned doing the same thing but more intelligently at one point. I'm human, so most of the time I will be kinda doing the same thing as others, but if I can consistently do these things "more intelligently", I'll be a happy camper ;P.

BTW - kudos to everyone who has mentioned that software development is an ongoing process.
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Johnathanamz: DLC's are destroying the video game industry. I wish the good old days like in the 1990's and early 2000's of expansion packs being released for sale come back.
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JMich: Please remove rose-tinted glasses. Good and bad add-on content exists from the 80s. But the bad add-ons of old have been lost to memory, since we don't like to recall them.

Yes, I too would prefer to have huge expansion packs, but depending on the game, I may prefer bite sized add-ons that are released every 2-3 months (UT Bonus Packs) than huge epic meals released every year (Civ V: G&K, Civ V: BNW).
I remember when Black and White came out and every gaming magazine at the time had some new animal available on their front disks.
I think to buy my brother all of them cost about £30 for a game he had already bought for £30 or so. So this BS is nothing new, it is just as undesirable now as it was back then.
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JMich: Please remove rose-tinted glasses. Good and bad add-on content exists from the 80s. But the bad add-ons of old have been lost to memory, since we don't like to recall them.

Yes, I too would prefer to have huge expansion packs, but depending on the game, I may prefer bite sized add-ons that are released every 2-3 months (UT Bonus Packs) than huge epic meals released every year (Civ V: G&K, Civ V: BNW).
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011284mm: I remember when Black and White came out and every gaming magazine at the time had some new animal available on their front disks.
I think to buy my brother all of them cost about £30 for a game he had already bought for £30 or so. So this BS is nothing new, it is just as undesirable now as it was back then.
Do you think I don't know this? I have been purchasing and playing video games since the 1990's.
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jamyskis: Right...what the fuck has that got to do with anything?

Or is this going to be yet another one of those rants that keeps popping up of late where it is declared that "impure console blood" is "corrupting" the "aryan PC master race"?
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Reever: Wooooow, now, hold your horsies, partner!

That sort of perk would have been freely accessible through cheat codes in previous generations, and it's not hard to imagine the uproar charging for them would have caused in the early days of the last generation of systems.
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Reever: This was what I was refering to. I ain't got no trouble with console/PC feuds, so let me out of it :D
Yeah, I think this is mostly targeted at consoles since PC versions can be modded or there are ways around their money grabbing approach.