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Johnathanamz: I have been explaining this for a long time but it seems some people don't understand what I was explaining.
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Fenixp: Oh I do understand what you're getting at, I'm not that stupid, don't worry.

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Johnathanamz: But I will never call expansion packs DLC's. Deal with it.
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Fenixp: It's not even this I have an issue with, even tho it's weird that you'd refuse to call content that you download downloadable content, but - you know, your problem. What I'm constantly irked with is when the word DLC is used with a negative connotation, whereas an expansion pack is automatically a good thing. Vast majority of both DLC and expansions are shit. There's more shitty DLC than shitty expansions, yes - but that's because there's more DLC than expansions in general. And some of the best bits of content I have played in recent years, like the Knife of Dunwall + Brigmore Witches or Burial at Sea episodes 1 + 2, are pure DLC and are not distributed in any other way.

So yeah, what I'm arguing is not necessarily what is DLC and what is an expansion, what I'm arguing is that the difference between DLC and expansion is so small and artificial that both can deliver the same kind of content - DLC just tends to deliver less and for signifantly lower price point.
How many hours is Dishonored's content The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches?

How many hours is BioShock Infinite's Burial at Sea Episode One and Burial at Sea Episode Two?

I am never going to purchase PC versions of video games sold exclusively on Steam ever again. Especially if they also don't have Windows XP support.

I can name a lot of expansion packs which are good.

#1. Command & Conquer: Tiberiun Sun's expansion pack Firestorm.

#2. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2's expansion pack Yuri's Revenge.

#3. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind's expansion packs Bloodmoon and Tribunal.

#4. Call of Duty's expansion pack Call of Duty: United Offensive.

#5. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion's expansion pack Shivering Isles.

#6. Rome: Total War's expansion pack Alexander.

#7. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars expansion pack Kane's Wrath.

#8. Command & Conquer Red Alert 3's expansion pack Uprising.

#9. Dragon Age: Origins expansion pack Awakening. Last time I played Awakening was in 2010 so I don't remember how big it is but it felt pretty big. From what I remember. Was worth it to purchase Awakening.

#10. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's expansion packs Dawnguard and Dragonborn.

There are so many more expansion packs from the 1990's but I will not name them all. The ones I named are some of the best expansion packs I have ever purchased and enjoyed playing very much.
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HijacK: Oh hell yeah! Those were amazing add-ons, though I'd argue combined they could be considered and expansion pack because of their amazing length.
Well, the Dishonored DLC was like 9 hours if you took your time and 1 if you didn't :-P Nonetheless, the indivial episodes weren't that long - out of the bunch, longest one was Burial at Sea: Episode 2 which lasted about 5 hours. Then again, the most expensive one were the episodes of Burial at Sea which cost 15 bucks each - that when added gives you 8-9 hours of fun for 30 bucks. Definitely no real difference between DLC and expansion there.

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Johnathanamz: How many hours is Dishonored's content The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches?
Knife of Dunwall - like 4? 5? - release price: 10 bucks
Brigmore Witches - a bit longer than the above. - release price: 10 bucks

Burial at Sea: Episode 1 - 3 or 4. - Release price: 15 bucks
Episode 2: 5-6 - release price: 15 bucks.

That's 20 bucks of about 9-10 hours of gameplay for Dishonored and about 8 hours for Bioshock for 30 bucks. It's nice that you can remember good expansions - also a terrible comparison, you're naming expansions from a timeframe of over 20 years, whereas DLC became big like 5 years ago.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by Fenixp
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Johnathanamz: There are so many more expansion packs from the 1990's but I will not name them all. The ones I named are some of the best expansion packs I have ever purchased and enjoyed playing very much.
They were good... Still are... sad when you compare to what's available today...
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Johnathanamz: I never stated it as a fact.

Also I spoke at the last part of that comment in Romanian to see if it would be better to make you understand. Because you are from Romania and no Romanian is not my native language I learned English first since I was born in the USA it's my parents native language though. The Romanian speaking part was sarcasm if you didn't get it.
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HijacK: Do I really have to quote this again? "You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not. "
See that "...but it's not"? That's stating it as a fact.

And for the record, that was weak sarcasm, though I'll give you props for getting the grammar right since it wasn't your first language. As for living in USA, I live here too, and I have to say it's fucking annoying when 90% of the people confuse me for a Russian.
I said it's not called DLC to me. TO ME and well quite a few other people.

Maybe the way I explained it seemed like I stated it as a fact?
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HijacK: Do I really have to quote this again? "You keep saying it is called a DownLoadable Content (DLC) but it's not. "
See that "...but it's not"? That's stating it as a fact.

And for the record, that was weak sarcasm, though I'll give you props for getting the grammar right since it wasn't your first language. As for living in USA, I live here too, and I have to say it's fucking annoying when 90% of the people confuse me for a Russian.
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Johnathanamz: I said it's not called DLC to me. TO ME and well quite a few other people.

Maybe the way I explained it seemed like I stated it as a fact?
Pretty much. I don't see any "to me" at the end or anywhere in that statement.
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Johnathanamz: #10. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's Dawnguard
I'm fairly certain this wasn't that big, but whatever floats your boat.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by HijacK
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Johnathanamz: I said it's not called DLC to me. TO ME and well quite a few other people.

Maybe the way I explained it seemed like I stated it as a fact?
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HijacK: Pretty much. I don't see any "to me" at the end or anywhere in that statement.
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Johnathanamz: #10. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's Dawnguard
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HijacK: I'm fairly certain this wasn't that big, but whatever floats your boat.
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim's Dawnguard wasn't a big expansion pack like The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion's expansion pack Shivering Isle or the other expansion packs I named but it was pretty big. It took me 14 hours to complete it. Mainly because I was distracted by a lot of stuff.
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HijacK: What you're saying is basically true, except there is official branding of PSone on PSN, but nothing related to PSX outside of the Japan exclusive console. Yes, PS1 didn't exist until there was a PS2 to be in contrast with, but since there is a PS2 now and some type of official brand for the name, even a logo, I argue that is way more accurate than PSX.
Oh, PSone/PS one exists, to be sure: it's the slimline model. PS1? Well... Whoever put these URLs together seems to have used PS for the original model and PS1 for the PSone:

http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/index.htm
http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/ps/index.htm
http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/ps1/index.htm

So it's arguable that Sony has used the PS1 abbreviation, but in a context that explicitly rules out using it to refer to the original PlayStation model.

Personally, I think I'd rather live and let live, but good luck with the quest for official accuracy. If anyone needs me, I'll be dusting off my DMG. ;-)
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HijacK: What you're saying is basically true, except there is official branding of PSone on PSN, but nothing related to PSX outside of the Japan exclusive console. Yes, PS1 didn't exist until there was a PS2 to be in contrast with, but since there is a PS2 now and some type of official brand for the name, even a logo, I argue that is way more accurate than PSX.
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VanishedOne: Oh, PSone/PS one exists, to be sure: it's the slimline model. PS1? Well... Whoever put these URLs together seems to have used PS for the original model and PS1 for the PSone:

http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/index.htm
http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/ps/index.htm
http://us.playstation.com/support/manuals/ps1/index.htm

So it's arguable that Sony has used the PS1 abbreviation, but in a context that explicitly rules out using it to refer to the original PlayStation model.

Personally, I think I'd rather live and let live, but good luck with the quest for official accuracy. If anyone needs me, I'll be dusting off my DMG. ;-)
DMG? What does that stand for?
Never mind! It means Dot Matrix Game.
Post edited July 05, 2014 by HijacK
This thread has derailed into something very silly. Is it possible that everyone could accept that there is:

- total crap that was knocked together by 1-2 artists on a lazy Friday afternoon after a long lunch in the pub, which is then sold to morons whilst managers and producers laugh at the idiots who will buy anything.

- deep content that was made by complete development team over many months, which is then priced fairly vs the cost of the original game, satisfying gamers for the added entertainment and developers for a job well done.

- a whole lot of shades of grey in between, where personal taste and personal economic circumstances significantly skew the perception of value.

Do we really need some argument over whether to call something DLC or expansion pack? Label this stuff however you like, I'll stick to conscientiously avoiding the rip off crap and may occasionally buy content that I am convinced has some genuine value at a price I'm willing to pay.
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IanM: This thread has derailed into something very silly. Is it possible that everyone could accept that there is:

- total crap that was knocked together by 1-2 artists on a lazy Friday afternoon after a long lunch in the pub, which is then sold to morons whilst managers and producers laugh at the idiots who will buy anything.

- deep content that was made by complete development team over many months, which is then priced fairly vs the cost of the original game, satisfying gamers for the added entertainment and developers for a job well done.

- a whole lot of shades of grey in between, where personal taste and personal economic circumstances significantly skew the perception of value.

Do we really need some argument over whether to call something DLC or expansion pack? Label this stuff however you like, I'll stick to conscientiously avoiding the rip off crap and may occasionally buy content that I am convinced has some genuine value at a price I'm willing to pay.
I can agree with this.

I know I don't have to purchase the " - total crap that was knocked together by 1-2 artists on a lazy Friday afternoon after a long lunch in the pub, which is then sold to morons whilst managers and producers laugh at the idiots who will buy anything.". But it does sicken me that some people do purchase this content because it was better when content like this was added for free in patches. In the end we ended up saving our money to purchase the next new video games that got released for sale and their expansion packs.

I also hate having to wait 6 months to 1 year so the video game with all of that DLC content bundled gets sold anywhere from $49.99 dollars (USD) to below for me to purchase. Video games that have microtransactions I will never purchase.

I save a lot of money by not purchasing those DLC's. Which I can then spend on purchasing the complete video game with the DLC's bundled from gog.com or Steam.

So I am happy that I know how to save my money and spend my money when the time is right. It's just annoying waiting 6 months or 1 year.
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Tallima: But some games (like Battlefield) die so quickly that you need the DLC and the game to keep playing. So it's a $110 game instead of $60. I don't know how to get around that one very well. .
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OneFiercePuppy: Well...

Don't buy terrible games like Battlefield, I'd say.
Oh such a good game. Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 2 were exquisite. All of my brothers would log on and we'd have our own squad. My favorite game is where you have to get into the enemy stronghold and put a globally-seen timer on a box. Two times per stronghold, maybe 5 or 6 strongholds per map.

It's hard to find a game with fun game mechanics like that -- something that requires strategy, skill and thought.
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OneFiercePuppy: Well...

Don't buy terrible games like Battlefield, I'd say.
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Tallima: Oh such a good game. Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 2 were exquisite. All of my brothers would log on and we'd have our own squad. My favorite game is where you have to get into the enemy stronghold and put a globally-seen timer on a box. Two times per stronghold, maybe 5 or 6 strongholds per map.

It's hard to find a game with fun game mechanics like that -- something that requires strategy, skill and thought.
It's even harder finding such games with Bots. I HATE having to rely on multiplayer. I wanna play it in singleplayer!
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Vestin: These discussions mostly lead nowhere... in no small part thanks to the fact that they're mostly disputes over definitions of words -_-.
This so much. Such a waste of time.
The more devs add microtransations, DRM, and cut content DLC, the more I pirate.
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Immoli: The more devs add microtransations, DRM, and cut content DLC, the more I pirate.
"People clearly like our games, as they play them. However, we need to add more and stronger DRM to stop this piracy"

so yeah. Congratulations on perpetuating the system and enforcing it. Without players like you, we would not have issues lie always online DRM. At least you keep some coders in business, I guess.