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I wonder if this is going to be a example of language evolution? DLC and Expansion gradually changing meaning from one thing to another?
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Tarm: I wonder if this is going to be a example of language evolution? DLC and Expansion gradually changing meaning from one thing to another?
I'd argue it's more of an example of people not knowing the difference between the way something is accessed and its classification. "DLC", "Expansion pack", "Add-on", "Extra content" etc. All are content. The difference is in what form they come in. On a disc, or though downloading.
Post edited July 04, 2014 by HijacK
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Tarm: I wonder if this is going to be a example of language evolution? DLC and Expansion gradually changing meaning from one thing to another?
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HijacK: I'd argue it's more of an example of people not knowing the difference between the way something is accessed and it's classification. "DLC", "Expansion pack", "Add-on", "Extra content" etc.
Isn't that how the evolution usually go? I'm no expert on the subject but I'd guess so.
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HijacK: I'd argue it's more of an example of people not knowing the difference between the way something is accessed and it's classification. "DLC", "Expansion pack", "Add-on", "Extra content" etc.
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Tarm: Isn't that how the evolution usually go? I'm no expert on the subject but I'd guess so.
Depends. One can argue it's more of a devolution than evolution since how exactly would be more efficient if we make all those meanings a convoluted mess?
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amok: Fun fact - the first DLC (as in DownLoadable Content) is arguably for the Atari 2600 in the early 80's, where players could download content from GameLive over 56kb modems.
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Wishbone: Given that 56k modems didn't even exist until the late 1990's, I somehow doubt that ;-)
whups... got my numbers wrong there. . Best to remove that number and pretend it never happened.
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Tarm: Isn't that how the evolution usually go? I'm no expert on the subject but I'd guess so.
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HijacK: Depends. One can argue it's more of a devolution than evolution since how exactly would be more efficient if we make all those meanings a convoluted mess?
Well can we settle on changing instead of evolution or devolution? :)

If enough people think and use a word for a certain thing it will sooner or later change meaning language wise to that.

Regarding this discussion I've found during the years that many people see DLC as a small add on and Expansion as a big add on to games. So I'm guessing that sooner or later that will be their meaning. If it is right or wrong from the first place doesn't matter from a pure language using view point once it's been established in a language.
Post edited July 04, 2014 by Tarm
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HijacK: Depends. One can argue it's more of a devolution than evolution since how exactly would be more efficient if we make all those meanings a convoluted mess?
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Tarm: Well can we settle on changing instead of evolution or devolution? :)

If enough people think and use a word for a certain thing it will sooner or later change meaning language wise to that.

Regarding this discussion I've found during the years that many people see DLC as a small add on and Expansion as a big add on to games. So I'm guessing that sooner or later that will be their meaning. If it is right or wrong from the first place doesn't matter from a pure language using view point ones it's been established in a language.
Change is not always for the better though. Take the PS1 for example. Some jackass on the internet thought of calling it PSX and now a ton of uneducated people call it PSX, when in fact the PSX was a PS2 Japan exclusive model that also featured XMB like the PSP and PS3 and some more added functions that the PS2 didn't have. It was basically a PS2 with a different or partially different OS.
But whether it is for good or bad, change will come, change always comes.
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Tarm: Well can we settle on changing instead of evolution or devolution? :)

If enough people think and use a word for a certain thing it will sooner or later change meaning language wise to that.

Regarding this discussion I've found during the years that many people see DLC as a small add on and Expansion as a big add on to games. So I'm guessing that sooner or later that will be their meaning. If it is right or wrong from the first place doesn't matter from a pure language using view point ones it's been established in a language.
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HijacK: Change is not always for the better though. Take the PS1 for example. Some jackass on the internet thought of calling it PSX and now a ton of uneducated people call it PSX, when in fact the PSX was a PS2 Japan exclusive model that also featured XMB like the PSP and PS3 and some more added functions that the PS2 didn't have. It was basically a PS2 with a different or partially different OS.
But whether it is for good or bad, change will come, change always comes.
True. Ain't no stopping change and it's usually a bumpy ride.
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lazydog.949: Thanks for pointing it out.

But I truly am a lazy dog, so will not bother. I defy the 950th lazydog to beat my laziness!
And to think I originally wanted to post "just in case you are in a lazy mood, here's the link" :)

But you are right : no hassle, more gaming !
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JMich: P.S. How does it currently make economic sense to release crap? I recall a tax exemption clause in Germany, but it has been revoked from what I recall. Unless you mean making clones of successful games, which was also happening from the 80s.
No, I mean specifically in relation to extra content for existing games.

Before, in order to release extra content, you not only had to produce the content itself, you also had to produce the physical media and get it distributed. That's a sizable investment. Add to that the percentage of the sales price going to the retailers, and you'll need to sell quite a lot of copies just to break even. That means you have to be sure that lots of people will want to buy your content. It also means that there has to be quite a lot of it, in order to justify the necessarily high price needed to recoup your investment. In short, it requires a large investment, and has a high risk of economical failure due to the large number of sales needed to break even.

Contrast that with the situation today. You don't need to neither produce nor distribute any physical media. There is no retailer involved to cut into your profits. The expenses involved in selling 100,000 units are not appreciably larger than those involved in selling just 1,000, because the expenses involved are mainly just the cost of developing the content itself. This means that it is feasible to make content units of any size. It also means that it is feasible to make content units of just about any quality. Because the necessary investment is so low, you don't need nearly as many sales in order to break even.

In the old model, in addition to the cost of developing the content, you had to pay for each potential sale (production, distribution) and lose a cut from each actual sale.

In the new model, there is no cut taken by a retailer, and the cost of production and distribution are negligible, and only exist for each sale you actually make, rather than for each sale you would like to make.

Hence, it would not have been feasible to make $2.50 cosmetic horse armor under the old model, but it is feasible now.
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lazydog.949: I disagree slightly. The size of it is relevant, I believe this is why historical expansions were able to be sold retail in the first place. As you have mentioned, dragonage:awakening is a good example of this. To throw another one in, so is the first call of duty expansion, united offensive.

Expansions do offer (or used to offer) a great deal of extra gameplay, measurable in hours compared to rubbish DLC that is quite often not worth the money, short and unnecessary and latterly obviously removed from the original release and then milked.

United offensive as an expansion has 16 hours of extra gameplay and that is a damn site more than you will get from most DLC nowadays and is quite spectacular when you consider that the most recent call of duty games (sold as full versions) amount to a fraction of this gameplay time (6-9 hrs these days I believe?)

So yeah, basically there is a serious distinction to be made between expansion and DLC even though both can these days be downloaded. Expansions are becoming rare beasts.
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HijacK: Do you also slightly disagree with 2+2=4?
Downloadable content is something that is downloaded. Period. Just because small add-ons do not classify as expansions because they do not expand upon the game as much, they are both downloadable. there is no distinction between a 15 hour piece of content and a small extra map as long as they are both downloaded. There is the difference in size and quality, but not in the form they are accessed.
Tell me more about how Dishonored's 2 DLCs are rubbish since they are neither an expansion,nor classify as what you call "rubbish DLC".
I am not denying how either may be accessed. But there is a huge distinction between content, size, quality AND relevance.

As for Dishonored, I cant say much-i know nothing of it. But if you have come with a new classification between expansion (alas, gone forever), DLC (get off your horse armour and drink your milk, pilgrim), then you should immediately market it, you may be onto a new winner for publishers darkest deeds.
Does anyone in their right minds believe them?
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HijacK: Take the PS1 for example. Some jackass on the internet thought of calling it PSX and now a ton of uneducated people call it PSX, when in fact the PSX was a PS2 Japan exclusive model that also featured XMB like the PSP and PS3 and some more added functions that the PS2 didn't have. It was basically a PS2 with a different or partially different OS.
A larger sticking point, however, was PlayStation branding. SCEA hated the name and wanted to change it to PSX, a contraction of the project’s codename. “This was actually a huge internal battle, to the point where there was research done among consumer groups,” says Harrison, who, having seen various youth groups reacting badly to the name PlayStation, had his own fears about it. “I remember thinking, ‘Oh my God, the name is bombing and everyone is going to hate it’. I shared the information with Tokunaka-san, and he said, ‘Oh, that’s nothing, you should have heard what people said about Walkman’. And that pretty much ended the debate.” In Europe, at least: the US nevertheless went ahead with early trade promotion, calling it PSX...
http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-playstation/5/
At the Alexis Park Hotel in January 1995, where Sega held their CES party, Steve Race organised for every napkin to be printed with ‘PSX welcomes Sega to CES’!
http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-playstation/4/#null
The PS2-derived PSX came later.
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IanM: But they used to make a lot from the premium rate 'tip' lines that were an easy way to make money from chumps who didn't know where to get the cheat codes. The internet and sites like GameFAQs probably killed that premium rate business, so really the pay to cheat via microtransaction is just restoring a lost revenue stream.
Reminds me of getting Batman Forever game for PC back in like 1995. There were basic moves in the instruction, then an odd entry in the back 'for help call' number. Infuriated me, i never got far in the game since it quickly got boring...
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Tallima: The borg said it best.

But I don't resist anyway. If a guy wants to spend a few dollars extra to make the game more enjoyable, more power to them. And yay for companies capitalizing on it.

I just don't buy anything that DLC is really required. I've bought a few DLCs and they were way-after-market add-ons. But if someone's willing to buy something, then they should sell it.

It drives me batty when it's stuff that should be included (like Alan Wake's 2 DLC. You only got 2/3 of the game and the other 1/3 was DLC). Still, I bought the AW DLC too. I'm a schmuck.

P.S. I should say that what DLC has done to my buying habits is that I wait to buy until collector's editions are out. But some games (like Battlefield) die so quickly that you need the DLC and the game to keep playing. So it's a $110 game instead of $60. I don't know how to get around that one very well. But things like Dragon Age are great to wait for a while. But I'm seeing less and less C.E.s out now. I think companies will just stop selling them. So if you want a game demo, it's $60. Get the whole game, $1,243. Whole game plus neat skins, $42,634. And time-savers: $160,320.
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HijacK: Collector's Editions are flooding the market. You have about 12 variations of that for Assassin's Creed.
What you are talking about are Complete/Gold/Ultimate/Premium/Whatever Editions.
Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Not those Collector's Editions with the figurines and junk. Thanks for that correction.

Game Informer has a great April fools Game Infarcer this year (or was it last year?) about Battlefield 4 Season Patch for $60. You get the crap game and then pay to get patches.

I have a feeling we're almost there for real.